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Original poster

Tell me we haven't lost the plot to be turning down a grammar place for DS

82 replies

LegsBenedict · 16/04/2015 17:30

I posted about this back in October here. DS unexpectedly passed the 11+ but didn't want to go to the grammar school in the next city (and county - ours is a non-grammar county) and I was umming and ahhing about whether or not to put it on his secondary application form. I did in the end, but not as our first choice.

After I posted, we visited a superb comprehensive in another city in the opposite direction, on a whim, and both felt it was our absolute favourite, a brilliant fit for DS - academic, super results, amazing sports, etc. So we put it on the form as DS's first choice. It's massively oversubscribed and he didn't get a place (he's way down the waiting list). Cue mega disappointment, as we felt this was the perfect option between the grammar he didn't want to go to, and a nearby comprehensive I was finding a bit underwhelming.

In the end, the place he got offered was at the nearby small rural comp. It achieves average/slightly better than average results, is "good" according to Ofsted, and has a value added score in the high 900s (could be worse - but not a patch on the super comp he missed out on). Lots of kids in its catchment go private or to further-away grammar schools/comps, so I question how well placed that leaves it to support kids working at high levels. It's never over-subscribed. But still, DS has got comfortable with the idea of going to this comp. Most of his class mates are going, and they're nice kids.

Two days ago, unexpectedly, DS was offered a place at the grammar - he'd remained on the waiting list and a space has become available by a whisker. We've talked a lot, and DS still doesn't want to go, for a host of valid reasons (it's single-sex, heavily religious, is difficult to get to, has a claustrophobic and tired campus, he knows no one there, etc). It would be difficult for us logistically - I honestly don't know how I'd make the grammar work with transport/work/DS being able to participate fully in after-school clubs (he wouldn't be able to). Also, the grammar's value added score is no better than the comp's ... and yet I still feel like we'd be passing up a coveted opportunity by turning it down.

DS has a good work ethic and is a pretty sensible, balanced lad - people are telling me he'll do well anywhere. And the comp should, in theory, be able to support DS to achieve at the same level as the grammar. In theory. I have to let the grammar know by tomorrow if we want the place - and I feel whatever decision we go for will be wrong in some way. And if I insist on the grammar, I think DS's trust in me would plummet, where his thoughts and feelings have factored into this process so much until now.

Any words of wisdom? Anyone else gone for an OK comprehensive over a grammar, whether by choice or circumstance, and it's worked out well for their DC? I guess there's still the outside chance DS will be offered a place eventually at the other (super) comp.

OP posts:
Duckdeamon · 17/04/2015 06:48

Who's to say the DS would be miserable though rooty? He might or might not enjoy the grammar (or the other school).

rootypig · 17/04/2015 06:53

Well I think what the OP is saying is that her son feels he wouldn't be happy, and she suspects the same - by way of answering your question - and she's given a myriad of sensible reasons on the evidence, but those are for some reason to be stacked against the word 'grammar'.

I, like pootle, think that there are a great many wonderful reasons to turn away from choices traditionally considered best or unassailable in education, at any age. And I applaud OP and her DS's openness to them, and her openness to her DS's views (brava, OP).

SoupDragon · 17/04/2015 06:57

she's given a myriad of sensible reasons on the evidence, but those are for some reason to be stacked against the word 'grammar'.

They aren't being stacked against a word.

I've been the bright child in a comprehensive school and it absolutely wasn't cool to be clever. I would have done better at one of the fully selective grammars.

rootypig · 17/04/2015 07:01

Fair enough, there are thoughtful responses about what grammar and comp might represent. But to be honest, without knowing the schools and child in question, it's pie in the sky. There's so much variety in all three. So what the OP is asking is, is it prima facie unreasonable to reject a grammar. Or, given A, B and C (about schools and child), is it unreasonable. And I think anyone who says yes on either count is stacking what's being said against a word, or concept.

I mean, religious, claustrophobic and tired?!?! Oh yes, just what I've always wanted for my DC!

rootypig · 17/04/2015 07:02

And since we're getting anecdotal, I've been the bright child at a tired selective school, and let me tell you, it wasn't a hotbed of intellectual curiosity, that's for sure.

Lancelottie · 17/04/2015 07:04

How does the 'good' comp do with its high attainers, specifically? You say it loses a lot of the brighter kids so may not be best placed to support them, but it must have some, and it will track them separately from the middle and lower attainers.

Someone will be along in a minute I'm sure with the right link for you to find out.

Duckdeamon · 17/04/2015 07:10

The OP has outlined the two options. She is not, of course, being unreasonable to choose either one.

At one school though the exam results are far, far better: that would have a lot of weight for me.

Many schools are "tired" and cramped. Others are big but are a mess, or space isn't used. My school had a swimming pool and sports hall and fields that were unused.

Those of us who went to "average" comps will have our views coloured, of course!

Duckdeamon · 17/04/2015 07:11

DfE section of gov.uk publishes quite a lot of detail on individual schools.

Hakluyt · 17/04/2015 07:14

"it's single-sex, heavily religious, is difficult to get to, has a claustrophobic and tired campus, he knows no one there, etc). It would be difficult for us logistically - I honestly don't know how I'd make the grammar work with transport/work/DS being able to participate fully in after-school clubs (he wouldn't be able to)"

It sounds awful. And the the deal breaker for me is that last bit- what's the point of going to a school were you can't go to after school clubs, play for teams, be in plays, b go back to friends houses.......

rootypig · 17/04/2015 07:16

Being at a school that lives and dies on its exam results can be soul destroying. Don't underestimate that.

Anyway you ended up arguing cogently on MN so it can't have been that bad Grin

summerends · 17/04/2015 07:21

Was n't the superb comp also some distance away?

Your DS would obviously have a more relaxed, happy childhood locally particularly since he has a nice bunch of local friends going there.
However for enjoying the academics, attainment and later opportunities that is more difficult.
This is not particularly helpful but three factors seem to contribute the most to how turned on a DC is by education in teenage years: peer group, really good teaching or at least one parent who is prepared to be very involved, do a lot of leg work, supplementing and pushing when needed.
If you are prepared to do the latter until GCSEs that may work out with a change at sixth form

rotaryairer · 17/04/2015 08:16

A good few years ago now but many friends of mine attended an all boys grammar. They hated it and would never ever send their children there. It was conformist and stifling. Yes, they all got good O Levels but didn't necessarily go on to great things. Does the comp have more of a dynamic, creative feel?

HermiaDream · 17/04/2015 09:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RunAwayHome · 17/04/2015 09:21

You could still appeal for the good comp - it doesn't matter that you are a long way down the waiting list, or far away in terms of distance, or that they haven't made a mistake - you can still appeal, if you think there are good reasons why it's the best school for him, better than the school's reasons for saying they are full.

toothlessoldhag · 17/04/2015 11:33

I agree with those who say that independent travel is an important aspect of the choice. I had to take two buses to get to my school and was one of the only people to not live close by. I had almost no social life and - importantly - no friends to study with when exams came around.

I was also bottom in a highly academic school and found it a miserable experience.

My only slight misgiving in your place, OP is that the school is rated only 'good'. I'd want to know that they set (not stream) from day 1, or at least from Year 8 in order to ensure your DS gets the best possible learning environment.

Fleurdelise · 17/04/2015 17:00

If the comp school is never oversubscribed have you thought about doing a deal with your DS where by he is giving the grammar a chance for a couple of terms (ideally a whole year) and if he still hates it he then moves to the comp school?

This is the only compromise I would have done back when my DS took the 11+ exam. And yes, he goes to a school where he travels 45 minutes by bus but he made friends and he loves it. I take turns with another mother to take two DCs to school in the morning as it is quicker (15 min ride) and he comes home by bus.

Hakluyt · 17/04/2015 17:07

He won't be able to tqke part in any after school clubs, or meet his friends after school. That has to be a deal breaker, surely?

spababe · 17/04/2015 17:26

The happiness of the child is the most important thing not the exam results. In years to come it won't matter if they get an A* instead of an A but they will remember if they are happy or not. Check out the gifted and talented offerings at the comp then let him be with his friends and be top of the class and flying and happy.

TheWordFactory · 17/04/2015 18:48

You're in a bit of a fix OP.

The GS sounds a logistical nightmare, ad the comp sounds very underwhelming.

Do you know what the % of high ability children in the comp? You say many DC in your area go to GS or private. Does this leave the comp thin on children in the same ability group as your DS?

I would not be happy with that at all.

LePetitMarseillais · 17/04/2015 19:05

Our grammar does clubs at lunch time as so many travel from afar,are you sure yours doesn't?

Why can't he meet his friends after school?Hoards of kids have to travel to school and manage it.

bigTillyMint · 17/04/2015 19:14

My friend has 3 DS's who all didn't even apply for the local grammar, because they wanted to go to the local comp instead. It has a very mixed intake and is graded "good" Her boys would almost certainly have passed the 11+

They are all doing/have done spectacularly wellSmile

Coconutty · 17/04/2015 19:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hakluyt · 17/04/2015 19:49

You can't play matches at lunchtime.........

rabbitstew · 17/04/2015 20:25

What did you say to the grammar school, OP? Did you turn it down?

rotaryairer · 17/04/2015 20:59

I would have a look at the comp GCSE results. I think you do need a "critical mass". My DS is at good comp and will have "student council" and "prefect" on his CV.