Do you think private schools give your children a advantage in life ?

[mistybear]

I am thinking of going back to work full time so I can send my dd to a private secondary school. My husband and I keep going around in circles of whether or not there is any advantage to a private education. We are not rich hence having to work full time to afford it and this is one of the questions, will having parents that are not that well off be a massive problem being at private school, we are not in London and the area we live in is not massively affluent. One of the reasons I keep thinking about it is that the people I have as friends and some of my family that have been privately educated are doing well and more importantly doing a job they wanted to do. My dd is hardworking and has already achieved her leaving school targets even though she is in year five, the state secondary schools around us are not the best but a couple are not too bad educational wise but all of them do not have clubs and sports that the private school has. She loves her violin, science and space also her ponies and she loves her warhammer !! she is also a only child x

No, you don't need to earn lots of money, you just have to achieve something in a very public sphere. Kayaking instructors, on the other hand, don't cut it (unless, I guess, they are instructing Olympians...).

Well halk I am very jealous of you if you can provide your DC with all the "cultural capital" that you want him to access.
Although I don't actually live on the moon I for one can't, lacking both the time and the actual availability. Even if he wasn't boarding just by going to school would preclude him from accessing a lot of things; we're coming into London this week to do my few cultural jollys I couldn't do it week in week out.

social confidence and contacts are the 2 huge advantages

Do you need to do something week in, week out in order to win your cultural capital badge?

In theory mini I agree that that should be our only responsibility as parents.

But in practice I feel a much greater obligation.

I see how the world is and feel if I can ( and I can) I have a duty to help them access things if they want to.

Also I feel a desire rather than an obligation to provide them a day to day environment that is conducive.

And since I have the money to fulfil that desire it would seem churlish not to.

"He flourished,got great results and MOST IMPORTANTLY,MADE MANY FRIENDS AND CONTACTS FROM WEALTHY BUSINESS FAMILIES.
He still networks with his private school friends,and it has helped him greatly in business."

It's comments like this which make me want to to start a class war. Talk about corruption and anti-competitive businesses practices.....

here

rabbbit you certainly need current access to things that are valuable now ( as opposed to old news).

I think the "social confidence" thing is interesting.
Are privately educated children more socially confident?
If by this you mean that they can quite happily sit at the breakfast table of a Duke in his 30 bedroomed pile and not feel over whelmed, insecure or embarrassed then for some children, obviously depending on the independent school school she/he's attended, this is probably true. It's also a useful life lesson as my DS has learnt underneath all the money we're all just people no better, no worse no happier, than the next man in the street.

"Well halk I am very jealous of you if you can provide your DC with all the "cultural capital" that you want him to access. "

Give me some examples of things that you would want to provide that you couldn't?

Oh, and people talking about contacts........you do realize that this only applies to about 6-8 schools. If that. If you send your child to the average private school with this expectation you will be sadly disappointed

"I see how the world is and feel if I can ( and I can) I have a duty to help them access things if they want to".

I don't.

My dd's school is a non-selective comprehensive with a 60% 5 A-C GCSE rate. The school gets children into RG unis every year, and onto courses in law, medicine, pharmacy, engineering etc. All these children need is access to good teaching (which they can get in most comprehensives), determination, intelligence and good support at home. If these children can succeed then why shouldn't yours, given the same sort of education? If yours couldn't succeed without loads more formal educational input and money spent on them, then perhaps they don't deserve to?

An educational playing field which is as level as possible is the very best way of creating a true meritocracy.

rabbit let's say your interested in Renaissance art and that just happens to be one of the topics you're covering this term, in a daily lesson, and your teacher is exceedingly knowledgable about it because it's his PhD subject, then what wonderful opportunity to learn about it week in week out. Then when you go on your jolly into London during half term to see some Renaissance art you look at in in a different way, the symbolism has real meaning, the changing styles as painting techniques develop are clear to you. Or in another term you're studying a book that you wouldn't normally read, Early English for example, by studying it week in week out you might find that something you previously had no interest in and little understanding off becomes something that you grow to love and understand. So yes I do think it's great to be able to receive an education about relating to art music and other "cultural capital" week in week out.
This is not to achieve a "better" job or earn more money you can be exceedingly cultured and still be a kayaking instructor!

"Oh, and people talking about contacts........"

And why the fuck are people lauding something - the 'old boys network' - which is nothing more than bloody corruption anyway.

I think a very good private school can give you a sort of inner confidence. I found this among my friends at Oxford who had been to the top public schools. I also spent a summer in Eton as part of a state school broadening programme and the facilities are exceptional and the atmosphere is very removed from the rest of the world so you feel like you are on a different planet. But I think even my Oxford education hasn't really given me 'contacts' that I can cash in on in the way people imagine. They are just friends! I think the main difference is that these private schools are full of children who already are intrinsically advantaged. They have wealthy parents with a wealthy network of contacts. They can take a free internship in the fashion world or go study a PhD without worrying about finances, they have a flat in inner london while they do all of this, etc. their parents are already professors or work for the bbc etc. This is the real advantage they have. Not the school. There is no magic secret door at the back of the school cloakroom.

Ime social confidence and a good contact book are the two things that people leave private school with.

I went to a local comp as do my children. So the experience is based on all the people I've met at work or uni who did have the private education.

More opportunities to play a variety of sports, a stronger likelihood of actually having done the science experiments rather than just read about them, more opportunities to learn the piano, access to a well stocked school library are all strong possibilities too.

I wish I could afford to send my sons to a good independent school.

You raise an important point Oddity (Though I would say that as I made the same point this afternoon!)

The children who enter the very "top" schools are already life's winners.

Sadly yes - going back to elitism instead if meritocracy. If you can afford it I'd just do it x

As I said, some are born with cultural capital, some achieve cultural capital and others have cultural capital thrust upon 'em...

Personally, I get great enjoyment out of occasionally learning a bit more about, eg, Renaissance art by, eg, going to a special exhibition at the Sainsbury Wing of the National Gallery or going to a public lecture. I don't feel I needed to have these things taught to me week in, week out when I was a school child. Being introduced to them at school so as to spark my enthusiasm or interest would have been enough, if my parents hadn't already done that for me - I didn't need week upon week of talks on art to develop any kind of interest or understanding. Also, I enjoy in adulthood still having things to learn, discover and get excited about. I don't feel I needed everything to be handed to me on a plate between the ages of 14 and 18. I don't think having that much thrust in your direction necessarily makes you more inquisitive, or more likely to appreciate what is put in front of you, and as you have pointed out, it doesn't get you a better job, either.

Halk I would like my DS to have regular access to people who are knowledgable about art, music, literature, etc who don't teach it as part of an exam curriculum but because it's there. We recently attended a talk on a particular artist at a museum, to do this I had to be off work, these weekly lectures at our nearest proper museum and by their curators are only held during the weekday in the afternoons, we had to drive 30 miles to the park and ride (there is no public transport for us and at 16 DS therefore can't drive) and then catch a bus. Prior to going I had no knowledge and little interest in this painter I came away with a little knowledge and loads of interest in this painter.
You might have the time and the opportunity to easily access and this kind of thing on a regular but I for one don't.
For DS to participate in his chosen sport requires an identical drive but on a weekday evening instead. The club starts at 7 I don't get in from work till 6 30 as I have as yet not obtained my helicopter flying licence again not doable for me on a normal week to week basis.
This week we're off to some London museums to hear some talks, a train journey this time but our nearest station is 15 miles away, the journey will take us over two hours again no buses,
So Halk I am genuinely pleased for you and a little jealous if you really do have the time and the availability to provide this kind of cultural capital on a more regular basis than I can.

just to clarify, by social confidence I don't mean being comfortable around the aristocracy. I mean believing in oneself, knowing how to project oneself and generally not coming across as either socially awkward nor with a chip on their shoulder. From what I've observed people react positively to this.

happygardening - I sometimes wonder why you live where you do, given your interests...

Happy - if my dc's were interested in the things you mention I'd point them in the direction of the computer and Khan Academy, plus take them to a gallery at the werkend. Really, there's loads out there on't internet that a motivated and engaged child could access.

Var, social confidence surely comes from parents/home environment too?

I was lucky enough to see my parents treat everyone the same, ie politely, friendly but no sucking-up or looking down or chips on shoulder.

I think a chippy attitude does kids (or adults) no favour.

rabbit I accept that's your view but luckily we're all different and respond to different things. I very much doubt my DS has had "everything handed to him on a plate" the teachers at his school require an significant I put form him. I also know he's lucky enough to have learnt and be learning things that he would no little about if he hadn't been to his school.
Maybe if your right if you'd had this opportunity you would have been less inquisitive but I've found that for him the more he learns the more he wants to learn. I also believe that you appreciate things more if certain aspects are pointed out. For example we were told at a recent talk on early Renaissance art that the halos around the Virgin Mary were all different because they were the "markings" of the studios that painted them. I hadn't even noticed they were different up until that point, that the amount of gold in each painting was stated by the person commissioning the painting. By pointing out this paintings that frankly I've never been overly interested in suddenly take on new meaning. My interest in them has been transformed Im now to use your term inquisitive to know more having had bit handed to me on a plate. You maybe in a fortunate enough position to know this sort of stuff already, or have the time to read into this subject extensively before going to the Sainsbury wing or maybe your just happy looking at paintings and not knowing a lot about them but I don't know, sadly lack the time and feel that this kind of knowledge enhances my experience and understanding. So Im all in favour of handing some thing on a plate/pointing out the obvious and not so obvious at times.

I think being constantly told you are a winner, and part of an elite is very good for your confidence, regardless of what actually happens to you at school/university.

My df was a diplomat, I was privately and had a lot of contact with extremely privileged people growing up. Sophisticated good manners and self assurance are the norm in these sorts of circles, but genuine warmth and interest? Not really. DH and just sister are the most socially adept, genuinely charming people I know and both went to ordinary state schools. What singles them out is their kindness and their good humour. No amount of good schooling can make someone like this - it's down to intelligence and genes.