Boarding school suggestions for bright (but not very motivated) girl

[foreverintraining]

We are looking at 13+ (or 14+) boarding school options for DD. She is an avid reader who reads practically anything with words on it, from classic novels to maths mysteries to our parenting handbooks. While she is definitely bright, her grades do not reflect that except for the subjects she enjoys.

She has a lot of energy but not sporty because she's unfortunately rather uncoordinated like me. Our friends comment that she is confident, an independent thinker and will be happy anywhere because of her easy-going temperament.

Right now, she's in a top school in Hong Kong with a lot of very driven kids or kids with very driven parents and her confidence is slowly being eroded because of her grades. While she has a handful of good friends, a lot of kids cannot understand her quirkiness, sense of humour and non-conformist attitude, as a result she also feels a little out of place. DD is also a non-sequential visual learner which makes learning in a traditional big class environment a little challenging.

We (incl. DD) would like to find a boarding school that is nurturing, but academically strong with teaching staff who are able to encourage and stretch (and push if necessary) her to her fullest potential. DD specifically says that she wants peers who are willing to help each other, both in school work and in growing up. A good community service programme will be a bonus. We'd prefer a school that offers IB or Pre-U in the sixth form.

The schools we are considering are:

CLC
Downe House
Sherbourne for girls (but concerned about the distance)
Oundle (will it be too big? Plus co-ed...)
Christ's Hospital (absolutely love the ethos)

Would really appreciate any feedback/suggestions. Thank you!

Poison, I hope you are not saying the ESF Chinese girls are so up themselves, and do not want to be in school (stick with) those who speak Cantonese and Mandarin. Ops DD is most likely from local very selective school with very high standard! I think many of these HK girls speak fluent English too. Being expat, sometimes it is easier to have friends who speak your language, but never stop me learning new languages and making new friends.
I think all school will encourage their students to mix and choose their own friends. Many Chinese girls do not have English as their first language, i don't think it ever stop them mixing with other in boarding school.

Summerends the Oundle 'bashing' was from one parent not a collective as you suggest. I actually had private discussions with him for personal reasons and there really was a lot more to it than met the eye!
As a prospective parent in the process of looking at senior schools for my DS with pastoral care requirements I am very confident that after exhaustive research he will be happy, safe and secure at Oundle and have the opportunities to flourish into a positive young man.
One parent's view out of a thousand needs to be kept in perspective. To say the school handled it badly is unfair, how could they post their side of the story on a public forum!! Child protection issues abound and quite rightly in this day and age, any school would be hung out to dry for making any remark on a forum like this. As responsible parents we really do have to keep in perspective what these forums are all about, useful friendly advice but at the end of the day we are only one person's opinion.

Pepper I don't disagree with you at all but extreme cases and how they are perceived by the families involved can be informative and would make me wary about that aspect in my fact-finding phase just as you have been. Usually in these situations there is an amalgamation of circumstances which will all contribute to an unhappy misfit, a herd instinct in the peer group (difficult to control for), personality of older DCs in house and of the house master / mistress and finally the strength of the pastoral leadership structure and ethos.

BTW all schools will have certain pupils that find it harder to adapt to the mainstream in that school. I think parents should have confidence in a selected school but remain open-minded that that school may not always do the best for their individual DC in some circumstances

I agree with summer . No matter how carefully you select the school. You may find that it was not the right choice and need to move. It could be the girls that year are not that type or that your DD can not settle. Its not a big issue. It just means finding another school that fits. It does not mean that the school is bad.

I would not worry to much about not understanding or lagging behind in English. We have found that although the HK system retains a lot of Chinglish. The basic grammar is sound. Speaking can be picked up very quickly.

Xpatmama All these comments about different sorts of HK schools are completely irrelevant to OP as well as unnecessarily attempting to provoke. As with all schools parents make their choice of schools according to what they want for their children, whether in Hong Kong or the UK. My DDs peers have not in any way suffered for having been at the schools you seem so keen to denigrate, they have ended up studying Medicine, Vetinary Science, at Oxbridge, Ivy League, one of the laziest boys is at MIT so what you percieve as " lower standards" but I might percieve as a different educational approach, don't seem to translate into underachieving pupils. I know plenty of parents who moved their children out of ESF schools but in the main it was for similar reasons to OP and the ones who stuck it out do not feel their children suffered academically in any way. What is relevent to OP is that it is not necessary to focus on a school's overall results, if a school enables it's brightest pupils achieve their potential then you can focus on where your child as an individual will be happiest and do best, and what you as a family want from a school. Some pupils do well in pressured environments, some do better where they are encouraged.

What is relevent to OP is that in some schools the pupils from certain countries are allowed to form cliques, and this may bother her as it does Kenlee, or not. Either way it may be something she may want to look out for. I offered some personal anecdote but actually it is percieved a problem in some schools, by UK parents as well as those from overseas. DDs friends are not in the least "up themselves", but when a girl who understands but speaks limited Cantonese is put into a group with girls who basically exclude her from the (assessed) activity by speaking only Cantonese, whilst displaying their English is indeed fluent when staff are present, and the school fails to appreciate either this or that they should never have segregated a HK Chinese "group" in the first place (for all sorts of reasons) then of course they a.feel excluded and b. put off the school. Why the girls may have done this, be it comfort or competitiveness, or even perceiving her to be "up herself" is irrelevant, it was the school at fault, and it gives no confidence they have sound strategies for managing their multicultural cohort and the understandable tendancy to cliqueyness in everyone's interests, does it?

One of the biggest pastoral problems schools have to manage is, especially with girls, the tendancy to form exclusive cliques based on whatever common mores, and the subsequent bullying, which is basically what OP is already experiencing from her competitive peers, so I think it probably is important to find a school focused on making it's cohort inclusive and respectful of difference.

summerends I wish Nomoresleep was on here to comment on how it pans out in the Westminster sixth form. She felt that the group who as you say have different social priorities did tend to find themselves on arrival stereotyped into a "Chinese" group wheras her son reaching out on the basis of shared interests discovered the group was not homogenous at all, and there were plenty of opportunities for friendship. Certainly the girls I was a Guardian too, probably what you would call the "inbetweeners" socially, had plenty of overseas friends there throughout, and judging by Facebook, still.

My DD has one Chinese boy in her flat at uni and the others, mostly from schools in rural areas, would probably be content to allow him to sit in his room with his games and computers assuming that was what he wants, but she has been careful to include him in activities if he wants to come, and he has come out of his shell, is lovely and will be sharing with them next year. The trick for schools is to get the pupils, both overseas and UK to find that common ground.

Poison how nice of your daughter, thoughtful & kind. One of the aspects that we as parents are looking forward to with a move to larger school is that our DCs will have the chance to meet and mix with children from different backgrounds and experiences, what a fabulous way to open their minds and create a desire to discover & share new cultures through new friendships. I hope we will be able to host some overseas children in the holidays in our (beautiful) part of the UK!

I can only say it worked out well for my DD. I'm not sure if the same conditions would work for other DDs Although we are looking forward to hosting one of the local girls in HK for Easter. She is already brushing up on her Cantonese as we speak.

I think it also depends in the child. If they are confident enough to talk and interact with others . This really is dependent on how good the school is at getting kids together.

Poison, I have no intention to provoke. I just think sometimes young girls/boys in a boarding envirnoment speaking their own languages to their native peers can also help them to relax, not necessary forming cliques.
Same for us too! Find it a lot easier to have friends speak English in the expat community. Hence we went for Int'l school. I also happened to know many expat only stick to their own countrymen, and hardly mix with the local or try to learn the language.
You mention only one girl one day experience in one school during an admission exam, she put into a group Cantonese/Mandarins girls, she did not like it, fair enough. May be the school just wants all these Chinese girls to feel at ease before drilling them at the exam. These Chinese girls can be from all over the place say Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Beijing or even London. I just find that a bit too quick to draw to the conclusion that is how that school is run and endorse segregation. I doubt any boarding school in UK will have a house only house HK students!
I totally agreed with you about girls school and the tendency of girls forming their exclusive cliques, the sporty one, the pretty one.......etc. So good pastoral care is a must.
Saying so, I also think is important for anyone to have a group supportive friends around them, cliques or not, so is about finding the right balance.

Xpat I offered one personal anecdote (and actually it was a group of HK pupils all, but her and one other, from Chinese International School, I see absolutely no justification for segregating a group like that when they were not doing it for any other applicants) as an example of something we encountered elsewhere too, that was a worry to DD's peers, and you will see on threads on here it is something people do complain about, and are concerned about in Boarding School choices. Yes it is natural to want to stay with friends with common backgrounds to some extent, the nut the schools have to crack is making sure that is not at the expense of the cohesion of the whole school community and fostering those skills in open-mindedness and making friendships with people from other cultures, for both UK and Chinese pupils, instead of entertaining stereotypes about different groups. For there to be a Chinese clique there has to be a UK clique too, both are missing out. I am perfectly aware of the diversity of backgrounds of Chinese pupils, even those from HK, let alone the different parts of the mainland, Singapore, ABC, BBC etc. The way my DD broke the ice with her friend was to discuss where he came from on the mainland and understand that that was going to be very different to a background in Hong Kong or Beijing or Chengdu........ It is sad if that diversity is not appreciated when they arrive in a British School, one of the main reasons the incident I described was so wrong. One Bursar even said to me "I love Wimbledon fortnight. Do they play tennis in China?".....

Poison, I don't know why that school done that, but that must be a few year back as your DD is already in University. Just speculation, may be the school can only have a limited Chinese intake to maintain its British tradition, hence grouping these girls together and pick the one that can fit in. When DD started her boarding school, like 12 years ago, there was only a few Chinese girls in each year group.
But nowadays with the boarding school fee keep going up and pricing out lots of British parents, it is inevitable that they need to take more overseas students.

It's true that keeping the right balance is the key and that's the tricky part. In this search, I'm consciously avoiding schools with a high proportion of HK/Chinese students. It's good to have friends from the same part of the world, not just for logistical reasons when travelling but also so that she has friends from school days that she can see regularly rather than only when she visits UK (or they come to HK). Afterall, DD is likely to return to this part of the world eventually (the parents hope...) But an essential part of an overseas education is to learn to get on with different people, to understand the cultures and be tolerant of differences. It can be difficult to mingle when surrounded by people from your own country: it's easy, it's comforting, and sometimes purely because you get labelled as a xenophile if you don't.
A girl I mentor is in 6th form in a very academic boarding school which has close to half of it's 6th forms from China/HK. From what she describes to me, there is little interaction with local girls. 90% of her classmates are Chinese (emm... Maths, Biology), she is not compelled to have lunch in the main hall, they make breakfast in their rooms on Sundays. The school doesn't seem to do anything about it either. While fellow countrymen certainly helped her to settle very quickly (she is shy and not confident with her spoken English), I think she is missing out on a crucial and fun part of the overseas experience, and I am hoping to avoid that extreme.
As for conversing in own languages in school it's also teenage insensitivity or poor manners in some people's view that they may not be aware of. My U6 roommate and buddy had to remind me not to speak in Cantonese with the other HK girls from time to time, but she also made similar remarks to the Israeli twins!

Forever, I could not agree more how tricky it is to find the right school that tick all the boxes. And like you mentioned, many academic schools are taking in many more very able Chinese (mainly taking Maths and Sciences subjects) in their sixth form to up the result in the league table.
Sometimes just need to follow your gut instant when you do your school visits. The list you have is a very good starting point.

Thanks Poison, I think the younger years discover much more easily mutual friendships without typecasting. That certainly has been the case for my DS at his schools.
XPat and Forever I know that in some academic girls' schools including CLC the maths / further maths set can be almost exclusively Asian.
The problem is that these are very good schools which is probably why they attract more bright international pupils particularly at sixth form so it is a balance between taking the path that Kenlee has very thoughtfully taken and is working very well for her DD or going for these brand names which are brand names for a reason.
My impression is that this is less of a problem for DCs in co-ed schools, particularly those with a wider range of ability like St Edwards as there is less prestige attached.

My DD1 was invited to HK by a Chinese friend and had a great time. We often had Chinese girls to stay with us for the weekend. I think when all the girls start together in Year 7 or 9, there is a better chance of integration but not if the numbers are too big. In my DDs year there were 4 Chinese girls and they spoke English all the time. This changed in the 6th form when new Chinese girls arrived, about 12, and only a few wished to integrate with the English girls or the existing Chinese ones! Obviously this is an anecdote, but you can never be sure how other girls from China will react with each other or how much they need each other, or not. You cannot be certain how much Chinese girls will want to mix.sime do, some don't. Just choose the school that you like the best. What other girls are there is beyond your control.

I just facetimed my daughter last night. Yes the school does have WiFi. She actually was helped by a upper sixth from Shanghai when she was in year 7. So yes having compatriots do help.

Forever I forgot to mention when your in England it maybe worthwhile to invest in a long term data plan for your daughter. Especially if she is going to travel alone. We have one for both sides. (I know helicopter parent alert)

Although I am also wary of Millie comments. I hope DD's school does not fall into that category when she reaches 6th form

forever my anecdote was indeed a school that has a prominent brand name in Asia, hence 8 applicants from CIS alone at one assessment, but xpat I did qualify my comments right at the start with the fact that the last pupil I was a Guardian too left last year. It still it shook me (and indeed was embarrassing, I wish I had complained in retrospect) that only 5 years ago, a school that had such a prominent brand in Asia behaved in a culturally, actually not just culturally, just plain insensitive way. Because of my background and day job I believe very strongly that these schools have an opportunity to build understanding between cultures so get very shocked, (disgusted actually) when even the staff at these schools do not bother because the strength of their brand means they can relie on demand regardless. I could go on but it is not on OPs list and they clearly know what they are looking for so it is not a debate that is helpful here.

Poison, obviously you have a very negative opinion of that school based on a young girl one day experience during entrance exam. You claim the school is insensitive to group all the Chinese girls together during entrance assessment. Just to let you know many other big name schools also do the same on the exam day and group all students from the same prep school together. It is just a selection process, all these oversubscribed selective school have the luxury to play it their way. Most likely, they can only pick a couple from each group.
All these big name boarding school attract a lot of attention, and different school has different reputation. Just like Pepperpot say about Oundle, one bad experience of a parent voiced in open forum, the school reputation changed, and the school can't come to these open forum to defense themselves.
Many schools,like Eton and CLC, have a big follower in Asia (HK) because they see it as the one to be in. hence many will apply. These parents, like Op, will visit these school and make their own mind up to see whether the school is right for their own child. If that school you disgusted so much can attract 8 applications from CIS alone, I'm sure they must be doing something right.

It is interesting to speculate what the end result will be for these big name single sex schools who take a further intake in the sixth form and select on academic merit (plus extracurricular talent). There is no question that on these grounds international pupils will be the majority of the intake. That is compounded by many of the UK pupils contemplating a change to coed or day at sixth form. Surely it is inevitable that these schools have an international feel with English teaching and ethos but actually little 'local' integration for most? Pupils coming to the UK want a style of education and university entrance but at sixth form level is it seen as particularly important to make English friends?

Xpat you say it yourself, certain schools have such a strong brand, and the Chinese market is extremely brand sensitive, and that brand is very driven by academic results, that they can do pretty much what they like without damaging the brand, certainly in the context of selection, and tackling the thorny challenge of cultural sensitivity . I strongly suspect they have enough able applicants, and the demand on the mainland is rising exponentially, to fill their schools several times over. As I have said I may be quoting one instance (and I am not going to hijack the thread with the whys and wherefores) but it is a reflection of a larger issue which OP has highlighted. I am just providing reassurance to OP that one school on her list, CLC understands overseas students are individuals and that there is an issue around integrating overseas and UK students which they need proactive strategies to manage, and to exploit the educational opportunities it provides. It may not be perfect but it certainly worked well enough for those girls I acted as Guardian to. That was symptomatic of the way in which they managed pastoral issues generally. I was quite jealous of the way in which they were so proactive in recognising the realities of teenage girls' behaviour and managing it, something my DDs London day school generally only reacted to.

I am sure all these big name boarding school opening their doors to the overseas students will do anything to establish a very good pastoral care for these students to ensure their brand will not be tarnished. You are talking a very big Chinese market out there. They can not afford to allow any bad reputation of the school, especially anything relate to cultural or racial issue, to reach the gossip circle among these TAI Tai.
Sometimes, it does depend on individual student how willing they are to integrate. There are two HK boys in DC's house, same year group as DC, one from Int' Sch, one from very reputable HK local school. I think you can guess, the one from Int'l school fits in very quickly and mix with everyone, but the other HK boy is a lot quieter find it more difficult, took him a lot longer to settle, and he gets on well with everyone now but his closest friends are a few other Cantonese speaking boys from other houses.

CH is great, visit it and see how you feel. A lot of people wouldn't look at it, possibly because of the high proportion of children on burseries (to put it into context, if you earn under £75K you are likely to qualify for a bursery)

Kenlee. One of the difficult things to assess is how school finances might change and whether or not a school will decide to recruit students from abroad to keep numbers up, especially in the 6th form. It is very difficult to know what will happen in any school in the future. Chinese students help with exam results in lesser schools and make the schools look more academic. People now judge schools by league tables so plenty of clever children are important. On Mumsnet some schools are labelled for the rich and thick largely because they have no Chinese children!!! As a parent, you have no influence over school policy or what type of young people the school recruits.

Molly....

What we realized being in HK is that all our brand local schools as in the UK have good results because they all select children who are bright and tutored.

What we wanted in a school is for the school to bring the best out of our DD. She may not be bright as her very clever academic Russian friend. Nor better on the computer as her local friend etc etc the list goes on. Yet she is happy. Isn't the main point of going through school to be happy?

Yes the school should push the girls to be all they can be. That surely does not mean to focus only on results and forget about building character.

I think the test of a good school is to have a mix intake. Then when the girls leave the school. They are good people , independent and have the results that best reflect the best of their academic ability.

So a 'local rich but thick school ' maybe better for your child than a brand that is only concerned about league tables. I prefer not to pay for the privilege of having my child to promote your school to get good results. I would hope that the school will teach my daughter life skills and give her enjoyment. So that she can make real friends irrespective of cash background. Then get good results ( We are still Chinese afterall). I know Priorsfield also have a small number of overseas Chinese in the sixth form. My DD says they are really nice and speak English when good manners dictate. They speak Pu Tong Hua so helps with DD's Mandarin. Im just on the other end of the scale when we picked for DD. We actually asked how many Chinese in her year. Which was one including her. I think there is a local Chinese in year 7 ,a Singaporean in year 9 and a Malaysian Chinese in year 10. They do mix but do not clique. Which is a good thing.