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Secondary education

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Original poster

Should we take DS out of grammar school?

246 replies

dobedo · 02/01/2015 18:15

Our DS started at a grammar school in Sep 14 and is in yr7. He was very close to passing the 11+ exam and got in on appeal. DS went to a state primary up to the end of yr4 when we decided to move him to a local prep for the last 2 years as the state primary had really gone downhill due to a new head. When at primary school he hated maths as the school didn't teach it well however at his prep school he came on so much and enjoyed learning again.

Basically we thought that by putting DS back in the state system into a grammar school would be fine and a great idea as it wouldn't cost us anything and he would be getting a good education.

However, since being there for 1 term his confidence has gone down, he moans that children just talk in the classes all the time and he can't hear everything and that the other children aren't interested in learning. Also, especially in maths the teacher never gets to him when he puts his hand up for help in a lesson and when everyone is talking he gets confused.

There is an independent school in the area that gets fairly good grades but not as good as the grammar school obviously, however, he would be back in classes of 20 rather than 30 and get more attention and help from the teachers.

Would you remove your child from a grammar school to put them back into the independent sector for the additional help and attention? I'm so confused, I never thought we would consider taking our DS out the grammar school.

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 09/01/2015 19:40

Comprehensive- sorry.

LePetitMarseillais · 09/01/2015 19:44

Really you know that for sure.

There are plenty of comps with Grammars nearby sharing kids from the same primary schools that send kids to Oxbridge.

Ours does.

smokepole · 09/01/2015 19:47

Not True "Hakluyt" . There are Secondary Modern schools that regularly send students to Russell Group and occasionally to Oxbridge. I have previously mentioned them as you know!. Can't be bothered mentioning them again.

The schools I have mentioned previously because of their mainly middle class intake are "Selective Modern Schools"

Philoslothy · 09/01/2015 19:50

My children's school is not quite a secondary modern and not qute a comprehensive either. We are in a grammar school area, just. We lose children to the grammar , just not as many as the other secondary moderns.

Hakluyt · 09/01/2015 20:01

If the grammar school in question is a super selective, the remaining school, while technically a secondary modern, is to all intents and purposes a comprehensive school. A true secondary modern has a cohort missing the top 23%ish and is unlikely to send anyone to Oxbridge..........

Philoslothy · 09/01/2015 20:17

It is not a super selective, from what I have seen it seems to have lots of just above average students who have been to prep schools to be honest. We used to lose a few every year, about 10% but not always the top 10% - usually the more middle class 10%.

Philoslothy · 09/01/2015 20:19

We also get some of those students back when they leave the grammar sixth form and go to one of the local schools rather than stay where they are,

LePetitMarseillais · 09/01/2015 20:24

Ours must lose a lot more than 10% and still manage Oxbridge.

Loads of bright kids don't bother or go to the other comp.

smokepole · 09/01/2015 20:31

Here we go again round the mulberry bush!.... Trafford has 35% of pupils educated in grammar schools yet it has two modern schools doing what I have said getting pupils in to Russell Group and occasionally in to Oxbridge. Hakulyt knows that but chooses to dismiss it or not recognise the fact because it clouds her vision.....

Hakluyt · 09/01/2015 21:15

What- like Blessed Thomas Holford- a modern school- but with 3% low attainers? Thwt really is some sort of admissions miracle......

smokepole · 09/01/2015 21:30

Well it is a "Modern" because 35% of pupils are selected for grammar schooling. 3% AAB at A level Wellington 5% AAB at A Level.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 09/01/2015 21:35

I don't understand how you can get into a grammar school on appeal when you have not passed the 11+ If your child did not pass the 11+ he is not grammar school material. End of.

Original poster
dobedo · 09/01/2015 21:46

Kids can have a bad day on the exam day. He passed 2 elements with flying colours but messed up on one element and only missed by a couple of marks. His SATs results showed that he had a bad day and was at the required level. That is why we appealed it wasn't just because we were desperate for him to go. The school supported us and believed he was at the required standard.

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 09/01/2015 23:20

Ah yes, Wellington. 10% low attainers, 9% disadvantaged. Such a typical "modern" school.

Violettatrump · 09/01/2015 23:34

Ears tested. Eyes tested. Request that he sits at the front if the class

TooHasty · 10/01/2015 14:40

Op at the risk of being harsh, he didn't pass the 11+! Why is it a surprise to you that he can't cope?

Hakluyt · 10/01/2015 14:44

"
I don't understand how you can get into a grammar school on appeal when you have not passed the 11+ If your child did not pass the 11+ he is not grammar school material. End of."

So much wrong with that. Starting with that unpleasant, dismissive "end of".

smokepole · 10/01/2015 16:22

Hakluyt. I see you have been sent to the "Heads Office" you Naughty Child!.

I was just about to post that the percentage chances of joining the "elite" in any chosen pathway (including sport)from different types of schools are as follows:

Modern or Inner city Comprehensive 0.1%
"Smart" Comprehensive 1.0%
Grammar School 5.0%
Selective Private 10.0%
Public School 20.0%

I expect to be challenged on these figures, because there is no evidence to support them. However, I bet there is a lot of truth in these "made up statistics"...

jeee · 10/01/2015 18:01

I know several children who failed the Kent Test (or rather, were 'deemed suitable for a High School education) who are doing very well at grammar school. Not least because the 11+ is a test on one day, whereas to get in on appeal you really, really need to prove that the child's work is of a grammar school standard.

OP, I'd talk to the school - but the first term in Year 7 is hard. Also, are there any other grammar schools your ds could attend - it might be that there's another grammar school that would suit him more.

LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre · 10/01/2015 18:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Coyoacan · 10/01/2015 18:14

Sorry read the first page, but is there streaming in the grammar school? I went to a large grammar school way back in the 1960s, but the classes were streamed and the less academic groups were quite disruptive and not so much was expected of them.

LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre · 10/01/2015 18:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LaQueenAnd3KingsOfOrientAre · 10/01/2015 18:19

This reply has been deleted

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Michaelahpurple · 10/01/2015 18:28

My DS's school (a selective London prep school) also only sets for maths in year 7 and I have been rather surprised that they don't do it for MFL, as the standard at French seems to vary far more widely, especially with the cadre of native speakers lolling around getting 98% on everything, whilst strugglers are flailing in the 40s. At least maths is taught in a language all can understand - if you are bad at french I think learning in a lesson taught in French must be nigh on impossible.
I know some don't approve of setting but as long as the children don't get too upset about it , presumably it reduces friction at the outlying bits of the class range.

Hakluyt · 10/01/2015 18:53

"It was explained to us that because the whole school is essentially the top set, there's no need to further stream them for subjects (apart from maths)."

So mixed ability teaching is fine so long as it's the 5-7 ability range, but not if it's 3-5?