The most Socially Selective schools in England.

[smokepole]

Here is a list of the most socially selective state schools in England , total no of pupils entitled to free school meals over the last six years. Dept Of Education Characteristics

1. Cranbrook School Kent 5
2. Borlase Grammar Bucks 5
3. Bishop Words Wilts 7
4. Pate's Grammar Gloucs 8
5. Colchester Royal Essex 10
6. Caistor Grammar Lincs 10
7. King Edward Louth Lincs 10
8. Adams Grammar Shrop 11
9. Colchester High Essex 12
10. Kendrick Grammar Berks 12
11. Dr Challinor High Bucks 12

12. Alyesbury Gram Bucks 13 12. Beaconsfield High Bucks 13 12. Newport High Shrop 13 15. Stratford Gram Warks 14 15.Skinners Sch Kent 14 17.Chelmsford High Essex 15 17. Judd Sch Kent 15 17. St Olaves Kent 15 20. Alcester Gram Warks 16 21. Tonbridge Gram Kent 17 22. Kegs Chelms Essex 19 22. Lancaster Girls Lancs 19 24. Skipton High Yorks 20 24. Tunbridge W Gir Kent 20 26 Hockerill Anglo Essex 21 27. Ripon Gram Yorks 22 27. Ermysteds Yorks 22 29. Altrincham Boys Ches 23 30. St Bernards Slough Berks 24

I looked up the FSM numbers when we were riding a lot and there were only about 6% on FSMs which surprised me as at our local comprehensive it was closer to 35%. A science teacher at the rural school bemoaned the fact no one would pay for their dcs to go on field trips whereas our local school has trips to Nepal etc.

The FSM thing is a bit of a rubbish measure of poverty, it is the accepted measure for schools though.

You have to apply for FSM which suggests some knowledge and a desire to get something. For some people the lunch is a motivation but for others (their child might not eat it due to a SN lots of carers in poverty, might not fit a religious/ethical requirement) is not worth applying for. The universal free meals for infants is only going to mean less people applying.

The working poor get excluded for to the gateway benefits required even though they may be in a tougher financial position once bills are paid.

Dapplegrey, they might get in, but I can't see that they do so in a way that is representative of the economic demographics of the country - there must be a disproportionate number of riders from well-off families.

Arsenic can I ask you how much you actually know about horses? Have you ever owned a horse? How many people do you know who own horses?
Over my many years of horse ownership I've always been stunned by how poor many horse owners are, this of course causes many many horses to be kept in completely inappropriate conditions because it's possible to purchase a horse for peanuts, basically as I said above I couldn't even give mine away. Any body with any sense wouldn't take one on. Ok equestrianism is not open to all but it is out there for those from disadvantaged backgrounds who reallywant to do it. Im a completely talentless rider but can recognise atalented rider at 40 paces the most talented rider I ever had the privilege to train under was born and bred on one of London's most notorious council estates, an Afrocaribean, horses were definitely not on the radar of either his parents or teachers, but they were very much on his, he just wanted to ride so he mucked out, cleaned tack and begged for lessons at a well known London riding stables. He was quickly talent spotted and before his untimely death has been talent spotted by some of the UK's top riders/trainers. Horses are inside you, for those who love them and want to ride them they are like a drug that you cannot leave alone, and regardless of your background you will pursuer this desire when ever and where ever opportunities exist and those opportunities do exist.
Why smoke does it matter that Ebony is a charity?

Smoke

Once again you put it far better than me.

I will try and give an example.
My dds best friend is so clever, a really bright kid who can do her step brothers maths homework so quickly. He is yr8 and she is y6.
Her mum hasn't a clue what is available, can't see the point of encouraging more than the school can offer, not out of laziness but it doesn't cross her mind. None of the girls family have been to college or uni, they all left at 16. I have suggested some things hoping the mum would bite, but she is happy encouraging her dd to gain mothering skills by caring for her half sister.
She wants to be a hair dresser, nothing wrong with that at all but she has a real talent for numbers.
Some parents just can't see it and no matter how many opportunities I found for dds friend her mum wouldn't be interested.
She is just one of the many children out there who don't have parents who are able to support. They aren't bad parents and make sure homework is done and that dc behave in school, but just don't see anymore.

DoctorDonna
Sussed it : we organise horse and cart to get kids to rural schools and then looking after the school transport will include everybody

I'd genuinely love that! We've got a horse box at our school, the tech department use it for transporting the Eco-racer. A competition which we've always lost, we get defeated by a variety of local comps!

Arsenic can I ask you how much you actually know about horses? Have you ever owned a horse? How many people do you know who own horses?

My DD rides, and as I say our village was horse central so know enough owners. I am not keen myself.

As I said upthread, I've known some pretty skint people own horses, often to the point of irresponsibility.

That still leaves vast swathes of DC, who if riding, dressage or whatever is on the school curriculum, will be left on the outside looking in, even more so if providing your own horse is required.

Plenty of parents who could forego the modest annual family holiday to buy a horse to keep in the garden shed, sensibly wouldn't. Still more don't have anything to sacrifice to do so.

Imagine the heartbreak of horsemad 12 year olds with no chance of joining in. Awful. Trainer envy times 1000.

I'm all for increased funding for Horse Rangers or what have you. Just not in favour of equestrian sports in schools.

morethanpotatoprints

I know someone whose 8 year old dd was an unbelievably talented, natural gymnast, with a perfect gymnast's physique - tiny, bendy and strong, and physically fearless. This child would be doing back flips in the play ground, armless cartwheels, all self taught. There was a gymnastics club, a really really good one, 75 yards away from this mother's home, and I told her that she should send her dd. Her response was that her dd preferred to watch tv after school than do any activity, and anyway, it was too difficult to organise. Again, not a bad mum, but poor, and totally overwhelmed with caring for her other 4 children, two of whom have quite significant special needs.

The girl is 16 now and really struggling academically. She's going to do hairdressing at college. I'm convinced she could have been a top-flight athlete. So, so frustrating....

Littleducks

I know where you are coming from, we are a low income family and my dh income is around the same or was the same as the amount required for fsm, but of course he works. He has paid for everything our dc have had and at times its been difficult but we are not poverty stricken and know where our next meal is coming from.
If schools were to use the income scale rather than fsm entitlement then perhaps we would see a different picture.
I don't begrudge those entitled to fsm any assistance they get though.

Put it this way- if we were living in Sussex now and dressage was on the sports curriculum and DD was picked for a team, I'd arrange something. A pony share, something. (We have never owned land or stabling etc ourselves) She gets plenty of riding time anyway and always has.

Not everyone has the means or the interest to do even that. Some DC don't even have an adequate school coat. I feel awful for the pony mad DC whose noses are pressed up against the glass and state schools should not be putting their own pupils in that position.

I just don't understand why you are not keen on equestrian sport in schools especially in rural areas. As I said would you be against a school team showing cows? Again not necessarily open to all. As I said above horses can teach you so much, the talented rider I mentioned above never owned one but was lucky enough to be given some incredibly talented horses to ride.

I agree not all have the interest but those who really do opportunities are out there. As I said a I would have and there are many like me would happily put a child who can't afford a coat onto one if my horses. It's you that are putting the limits in place.

Struggling to get my head round the cow thing.

Maybe I've lived too long with a horse-obsessive and know too many of them. I can't imagine teenage cow mania.

Root

That is so right, frustrating.
My dd is H.ed and when we set out I scared her to death with a maths book I bought in error far beyond y4 which she was then. It must have been quite high a Schofield and Simm book. Her friend begged me to let her have it, I was only going to store it under never in a million years.
She brought it back the following week and asked for another. I could have wept. Needless to say I bought several more and slipped them into her school bag when she came round.

Having 'cultural capital' as mentioned by Smokepole, is crucial. I know a boy who has a 100% bursary for the independent school my DS attends. His family is not a typical low income family, however. His parents are university educated. They don't have money but what they do have is knowledge about educational opportunities. They knew about the bursary scheme. They were proactive in applying. The state primary school the boy attended had not promoted the scheme or helped at all in preparing him for the entrance exam.

That boy's case makes me think of all the equally talented children who do not have the advantage of parents with cultural capital.

That boy's case makes me think of all the equally talented children who do not have the advantage of parents with cultural capital.

Which is precisely why I am in favour of Comprehensive schooling in the State sector - so that even the children of the most half arsed parents have the same opportunities offered to the motivated professional parents in the area.

The minute you segregate children into silos of god, gonads or the ability to be tutored for a test
you limit the potential of those whose parents were unable to line up the hoops.
And that is bad for the long term future of the country.

I was a cow obsessed teenager. I've been successfully cured of the horse thing but I still love cows they have pure poetry. Cows like horses are inside you, for those who have it they are just so special.
But my point is that why shouldn't rural state schools have equestrian teams? Its not necessarily an indicator of a catchment area with wealth and privilege but a reflection of their rural farming catchment area. Many people associate horses with money and privilege but not cows and those who criticise state schools with equestrian teams probably would bat an eye lid about a rural school where livestock farming predominates with a school team showing cows.
By the way your average dairy costs just shy of 2k.

I agree that cultural capital is essential to giving dc the opportunities in life.
It doesn't matter where you come from or how much money you have, if there is ability and talent a child should be given the opportunity to succeed.

but I still love cows they have pure poetry.

This has complicated the issue

Posted too soon, just wanted to say that this is what you do if you live in a deprived area, you do what you can to sing a better song.
It was seeing this that made me realise that I had to do this for my family, nobody was going to knock on my door and offer them a great education.

"If equestrianism was truly egalitarian, there would have to be members of the hoi polloi getting into the British Olympic team from time to time - but does that ever happen?"
This is what you said in your first post, but then when I pointed out some state educated members of equestrian teams you changed your comment to state educated riders were under represented on the teams.
That is true, I think of eventing, but I doubt whether it is the case in show jumping.
I don't know about dressage.
Which particular team were you thinking of?

Sorry - that post was addressed to outwiththecrowd.

"Put it this way- if we were living in Sussex now and dressage was on the sports curriculum and DD was picked for a team, I'd arrange something. A pony share, something."
Arsenicfacecream - surely a child would only be picked for a team if she had shown promise on a particular pony which they wanted for the team? The pony wouldn't have to belong to him/her, but he/she and the pony would have had to have won competitions together before the selection committee would consider them.

Dapplegrey, all I know is that competitive horseriding at the highest level is very expensive. That means that you must either have family that can help with costs or you have some contacts or connections that can help you out. I read somewhere that the number of privately-educated sportmen and women in the last Olympic team was disproportionately high. So what I am saying applies to all sports at the elite level, but horse-riding in particular.