Headmistress attacks parents in national press

[UpsetofWestLondon]

Done first ever name change for this as don't want to be identifiable!

I am really, really pissed off. The High Mistress of St Paul's Girls' School, where I am a parent, has been widely quoted in the national press this weekend criticising parents at SPGS. I fully realise she may have been quoted out of context, but the quotes seem to apply to all parents at her school and the one that cuts to the quick is where she accuses parents of "affluent neglect" by not paying enough attention to their daughters in the evening.

I should say my DD is very happy at the school, does lots of things well and lots of things not very well but enjoys them so that's great. I adore spending time with her and the only reason I don't spend as much as I would like in the evenings is because of the extraordinary volume of homework she gets set by the school (and obviously the time she needs to spend on Facebook etc!).

I am glad Ms Farr is pro-children, and this is not the first time she has criticised the parent body, but at some point, if you continuously publicly criticise your paying customers surely you have to understand you will upset them? I feel personally attacked and concerned I will be judged by others negatively for being part if this vile parent body she describes. I am cross.

I almost want to post this in AIBU...but am I?

Some of these schools have better reputations than others in terms of their emphasis on public service provision and bursaries and trying to get out into state primaries to facilitate and encourage applications from bright pupils who might not even think of applying. Most of them have it hard wired into their ethos dating back, sometime hundreds of years. I have just done a trawl through the websites, nothing on SPGS, NLCS, LU (though they used to have a very strong reputation, not sure how their activities have fared with the relentless rise up the tables) apart from information on how to apply. G&L seem to be building a page on primary school partnership and LEH have chapter and verse (though of course all may be doing the same activities but it is significant to put it on your website)

www.lehs.org.uk/public-benefit-provision/81.html

I think MN164s ideas are interesting if probably not workable but in the real world I do think parents should be expecting the schools to be proactive about targeting the money they have available to those most deserving rather than as a means of getting the brightest / most talented to advertise their accomplishments on your website (I have heard a lot of parental moaning about that in relation to GDST schools), not that I am sure how you define that (unless there is enough money to truly achieve needs blind) but setting the aim is a good start. I wonder if current SPGS parents know or care what the schools strategy is?

Certainly when I challenged the bursar on why they had so few pupils from state schools the answer was that they were too behind (presumably those with targeted prep at eg Bute) and the school could not bring them up to speed to keep up with the pace in Year 7. (And yet they offer places to pupils from International Schools following the NC?) At other schools they deliberately use Year 7 as consolidation to bring state and private to the same level. I would love to be corrected on this, and told things have changed.......

Actually, unis make huge efforts to stagger deadlines, and spend a lot of time planning across modules. But with hundreds of students all doing a variety of modules it's not possible to predict every student's work patterns. Instead we expect, beg and nag them to plan their workload and do some work early. Mostly they manage it - it's certainly a useful life skill.

Re:state entry to St. Paul's, I suspect the reality is that the many parents who make a calculated decision to send their children to state primaries but tutor to go private are happy with the many good london schools that charge lower fees, and super bright natural geniuses go to tiffins.

The idea that state school children are so far behind that they can't possibly catch up sounds very suspicious. Ironically, taking the speech into account, it might be implied that you get what you pay for and you get who can pay for you...

(No disrespect to OP - I am sure there are many great parents at SPGS)

Poisonwoodlife, you make some good points there.

My worry is that the "money they have available" in these hyper expensive schools is coming almost entirely from an increasingly tiny proportion of the wealthiest 1% of the population. Targeting that money at the most deserving is all very well but a school population made up only of the super rich and the underprivileged is an unhappy mix. The excluded middle will ask if that sort of community is one which deserves tax breaks. That's what is going to threaten the existence of these schools and much faster than most of them seem to realise.

My DDs went to a school where all bursaries came from fee income. More and more parents were behind with the fees but could not access bursaries as they were not poor enough! For people who have seen incomes drop, in some cases substantially, but others work the system to get a bursary and are not poor at all, makes for an unhappy mix. As I said earlier, the day fees at my DDs school are £1000 a term more than St Pauls. I suspect the fee hike at St Pauls was to extend bursary provision. The dinners the High Mistress hosts for the richest, hand picked, parents are for the same reason. The same happened at our school. Exclusivity, for the parents who belonged to this club, meant preferential, exclusive events at school (their own carol concert for example) and they were known as "Friends". It divided parents into them and us non-friends! However, girls schools do not tend to have huge endowments and fee income is vital but where some parents are really struggling to pay full fees, support the school and their daughters appropriately, but do not have enough spare money to give in addition to fees, it is upsetting to be considered very second class. Often the richest were never seen at the school, until there was a special event for them!

MMM, If you are paying £1000 a term more for day school fees than at SPGS, you are paying more than the gross salary of a teacher on the main pay scale in outer London: www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/341951/School_teachers__pay_and_conditions_2014.pdf

When school fees for a day school actually exceed a respectable middle class salary, red lights should be flashing.

The private schools are losing their real "friends" with this lunacy.

Nobody wants a whole new profession of "wealth reduction consultants" to help people get bursaries and to take over the territory abandoned by the schools saving plans people (those plans have turned out not to be adequate for the purpose).

Heads must take a long hard look at how they got into this hole. Instead of digging deeper, they should concentrate on getting those fees back down again. Where there's a will, there's a way.

granola Part of the problem is that these schools are operating in a growing market. The shortage of good state school places is really biting, in spite of the success of the London challenge. it is only going to get worse as the pupil bulge really starts to come through, and it was first felt last year, in some suburbs the pupil cohort in 2017 will be 40% larger than in 2013. Gove's approval of multiple Free Schools is hitting a mire of site shortages and planning delays. Venture Capitalists are entering the private school market www.radnorhouse.org/meet-the-team.php www.albion-ventures.co.uk/about/Emil_Gigov.htm and this is a school that has looked at the market and come up with a competitive strategy that encompasses seeking to be academic but including the parent body in the community (cafe on site etc.) to a greater extent than other schools. It is very popular with parents.

I can't speak for the SPGS parent body but at the other schools there are plenty of less affluent parents, first time buyers who are stretching themselves, perhaps a mother going back to work, remortgaging, downsizing house to afford fees (all common stories being fed back to a local campaign group who are trying to hold the LA accountable) because they cannot access a good school place. At our four local outstanding comps there were over 4000 in borough applications (vast majority first preference) for 850 school places. The Council admit most of those who do not get places disappear from their lists. The tutoring racket industry around here is frightening.

Add to that plenty of families from immigrant backgrounds or other cultures who make education their first financial priority and also may be taking on multiple jobs to pay. In a lot of these schools the proportion of BME is actually higher than neighbouring state schools.

Certainly at DDs school it was not possible to identify who was on a bursary. Yes, there are bankers, lawyers, and other city types, and a sprinkling of media types too. However there are also GPs, teachers (one partner anyway), Engineers, Salesmen, people with businesses engaged in import / export with India and the Middle East, SME owners etc etc etc

I don't see that mix changing, in fact I think entry will become more competitive as people who would have gone to a good state school find themselves excluded by shrinking catchments.

"Targeting that money at the most deserving is all very well but a school population made up only of the super rich and the underprivileged is an unhappy mix."

Can I suggest that there are very, very few children on bursaries at private schools who can truly be considered 'underprivileged'.

locomotor Well that appears to be true for my DD at another RG uni but I only recently completed a Masters at another London uni, believe me whatever planning they do, it does not work. And as my DD was just complaining, us mature students are buggers for punishment, requesting harder assignments and actually wanting to work and learn "because you do not have a life and make it harder for those of us who would quite like a life" Even without a life I still found myself burning the all-nighter oil. In fact she is a bit of a control organisational freak but the workload on her Science course is frightening, and if she is struggling plenty struggle more.

rootandbranch I agree it isn't common but where schools do go out into primaries they do find very bright pupils from underprivileged backgrounds. At one 11+ entrance exam I showed a bewildered looking single father where his other child could play, he had been widowed by the war in Somalia. His son had taken part in a G&T session run by the pupils of the school, his teacher had encouraged him to apply for a scholarship / bursary and had persuaded the school to wave the registration and had paid their fares herself. His son was given that chance. That is my point about schools who include in their ethos any sort of commitment to helping bright pupils regardless of background, as most do, needing to be proactive to use their pots of money wherever it will make the biggest difference to the pupil's lives, not their results and websites. And that is through getting out into the community.

It is also about making their Year 7 accessible to any pupil completing the Year 6 curriculum. Every private school teacher I have ever spoken to has said that whilst state school (and International School) pupils may be less secure in the "stuff" they know when they enter year 7 they soon catch up because they have the enthusiasm and thinking and learning skills. All pupils may be able but each pupil has something different to offer from their experiences and strengths, and maybe SPGS is missing something there, not just in terms of a more diverse parent body..........

There are nice cheap schools in Paris . DSS2 in Terminale S costs us about €3,000 per year in fees (before trips and extras and his UCAS grade predictions are 18.5/20 mean, 19/20 maths and 20/20 English. The equivalent of at least 4A*...

Rootandbranch Yes, absolutely right, currently very few who are on bursaries are "underprivileged" but it is they who are surely the "most deserving".

PoisonWoodLife

"Certainly when I challenged the bursar on why they had so few pupils from state schools the answer was that they were too behind (presumably those with targeted prep at eg Bute) and the school could not bring them up to speed to keep up with the pace in Year 7."

The notion that state school pupils will not cope doesn't square for me. They might need a bit of attention in year 7 and some catch up on, say French and Latin, but the "material" is no different from prep-schooled pupils. If they can reach the levels required to pass the 11+, they prove themselves more than capable.

Colet Court have a approach to this. They have a deferred 11+ test for Year 5 State School boys. At 11 (year 7) they take in about 20 and target 10 from state schools.

It's a step in the right direction, but of course it overlooks that the school takes in more at 7+, 8+ and that the local state schools are not exactly FSM, ESL heavy (Fulham, Chelsea etc).

It's the diamonds in the rough that the state system might not serve well that need to be encouraged. That's a real challenge as home life and parenting are often correlated making that pupil's journey to the best state or private school harder. At least private schools have the resources and reach to find those diamonds.

As for the middle classes being priced out of private schools, let's be clear - nobody is going to weep for us are they and, frankly rightly so. That said, and with vested interests at heart - I think the new local economy of London should be taken into account. There are plenty of middle classes that need partial bursaries that won't get them because of inflated house prices (net asset test) - house prices that have risen not because of the middle class affluence but because of the weight of money from the new elite and overseas wealth.

That's why I think schools that have it in their power to admit pupils how they choose should start doing so.

CF at SPGS could get backing from the Worshipful Company of Mercers to fulfil the ancient mission of the school and dole out much bigger bursaries that they do. After all, they just committed to £100m going in to the boys school.

Lots of parents would feel left out by "choosing" families and professions, but that is frankly tough luck. Find another school where an 11+ and chequebook are all that matters - there are plenty to choose from in West London.

[soz - got a bit rant there]

MN164 it is my DDs opinion that St Paul's was the only exam in which going ahead of the NC, and developing more advanced skills eg in literary critisism and Scientific method and knowledge would give you an advantage. Just having practised what was asked of her that she had not encountered before in the course of NC Literacy and Science would have been of help (and she is a very able Mathematician / Scientist) . In all the other school entrance exams there were questions that challenged you but more as tests of lateral thinking, applying logic, and familar concepts in unfamilar ways, like the ones at the end of the G&L sample papers (which are always good fun to work out over the course of a day or two )

PWL

That's good insight to the exam process from your DD. Thanks.

My point was slightly different (perhaps as to make no odds). If a state school kid could pass the SPGS 11+ then they are good enough to "catch up". If the exam is "harder" that other 11+ exams then this is doubly true IMO.

I don't have any experience on the girls school side of things yet (year 4 DD), but do on the boys side. Take state school NC delivered by a "good" Ofsted primary, add 10 hours with a tutor on exam technique and get offered places from both schools applied for. The school he chose (lucky him to have a choice to make!) say that their experience is that state school primary students do "better" in the long run, overtaking their prep-schooled counterparts by year 8/9. All at the fine margins of course as they are all bright, but their words not mine.

It's a shame that the 11+ system favours those that have been prep'd, tutored or simply supported at school and at home in a way that state primaries neither have the responsibility or desire to (probably not the resources either). State schools have enough to do as it is without helping private schools "cream off the top".

I went to SPGS from a state primary (and was not tutored). It was fine. I was behind but I would say I had caught up and in some cases overtaken by the end of the first year or so. I had plenty of friends there from all kinds of backgrounds. About 10% of the school is currently there with financial assistance (I know this because they write to me a lot asking for money).

Money for bursaries, just to be clear, not money for the school itself, IYSWIM.

To be honest there appears so few from state primaries at SPGS- only 2 I think from Dd's year - school list was issued in Y7 which names the individual and the school previously attended. It is very transparent. 1/4 bute.
They are trying hard to fund full bursaries.
Possibly the issue lies with State schools not considering putting pupils forward or suggesting the possibility for parents to consider.
I dont think its about the kids being too far behind. For instance the 3 langauge options on entry are assigned so that you dont have any ability in the language selected.
about 1/4 overseas students coming from totally different curriculums.
The first year is more of a leveller to get everyone to the same point.
Bright kids from state schools would have no problem bridging the gap in the first year.

Most families with DC at state primaries considering going private for secondary are cost sensitive. If their DD is SPGS caliber, they look at the other options such as NLCS, CLSG, Habs, etc. which are also very, very good and cost significantly less.

Also, if the fees are going to be a squeeze, you might worry about your DD socially at SPGS. Would you have the money "to keep up?" The lack of uniform is a detail, but you might worry about the cost of dressing your DD so that she "fits in," etc.

I am sure SPGS is an excellent school and an intellectually inspiring place, but it also has an air of being very well heeled which may be off putting to families with DDs in state primaries.

SPGS ran a summer school this year for the first time for children at state schools & the head of yr 7 makes a big effort to encourage pupils from the state sector. I am aware of girls from state schools in both my DDs years, when they started we weren't told where their classmates had been before. The school has strong ties with Hammersmith Academy which is sponsored by the Mercers and pupils from the VIth form come to the Friday Lectures. They also get help with university interviews. There is still a lawn behind the science block. My dds mainly wear their sports kit to school as they are active everyday and it saves time. Although a creative subject isn't compulsory at SPGS unlike at the boys' school I think most of the girls did art, music or drama (no dt as the art is very free, like everything else at the school). There are lots of publications, M2, The Foodie, MFL magazines, classics magazines & a science magazine each year; the pupils can run a magazine on whatever they want. They go out and get sponsorship from wherever they can, another great experience, rather than it being funded by the school/parents (but they use the school's computers etc). My DDs are busy with plays, music, sport, volunteering etc but still go to parties & shopping. They weren't tutored to get in, haven't been tutored since they got there & have never come top in an exam. Each was taught by CF when they were in yr7 & I haven't been in to complain about anything.

Dd's head suggested SPGS for her but we were put off by three things - location (we're south London, dd would have had a longish journey with a couple of changes and I wanted her to have more local friends), the lack of uniform (not a problem in itself but potentially difficult when the vast majority of your peers are better off than you) and above all, the eye-watering cost. We can afford fees - dd goes to a fantastic independent school which is much easier to get to - but are not in the income bracket which means we can happily kiss goodbye to several thousand pounds a year. Like many other bright girls I'm sure dd will do very well wherever she is and SPGS just didn't have enough pros to counter the cons

Well that figure of 2 from a state primary in a year is considerably worse than when I asked the bursar. As I recall, then she was saying 20% which was at about half the level of NLCS, G&L and LEH. Bute however was taking 40%+ of the places at that point.......

And if there are only 2 from state primaries, where are the bursaries going?

I am beginning to share OPs indignation. Bit much to go and moan about the parent body to other Heads when it is an unusually (even for economically selective private schools) affluent parent body of her own making.........

I don't think she's bothered about the affluence, just the snowploughing and neglect.

I think a lot of the state school pupils who go to other London day schools are more likely to be like Basildon - they have looked at school fees, made a calculated decision to send their child to an outstanding primary and have decided that the value added of sending their very able daughter to St Paul's over another school isn't high enough to justify the cost.

Of course all these schools offer bursaries, but I don't think 'ex state primary' necessarily means lacking in funds in anything other than relative terms.

Although I think that the closer all schools get to the fees that would previously have been thought of as "bring your own pony" levels, the more able students you exclude.