Homework, sigh...

[dingit]

2 weeks in and ds and I have had our first major bust up. I check his planner every day and ask him about homework.
Just found out this morning that he had a piece due in today. He's just spent 20 mins rushing it, which IMO is not good enough by year 9.
He knows that the consequences of this is we take his x box away, this time I told him it will be until the weekend, so that he learns that homework comes first.
At this point he lost the plot and called me an arse
I'm going to speak to dh tonight, but what do you do about behaviour like this? It's not the first time, I don't know how to get through to the little toad, his gcses are going to be disastrous if he carries on like this.

But Word you can make the decision to let DC be responsible for organising and doing their own homework and taking the consequences of missing deadlines or handing in sub-standard work, and still be a supportive parent. I consciously choose to adopt that approach because I believe it's the best way for DC to learn to take responsibility for their own work. It's not because I can't be bothered.

And some of us 'disinterested' parents have also run the gauntlet of exams without mishap.

marni I deliberately used the word disinterested to counter the deliberately derogatory language chosen by elephant . The clue was in the wink.

And of course you can choose that route. And if it works great.

Whatever works for each child and facility is a success story .

I just don't see why parents have to be insulted if they chose a different way. And all the predictions of doom....

The reality is that teen brains have poor impulse control. They find it harder to think long term. How we guide them through that period and help them develop their impulse control is up for debate.

There isn't one route to success and one to crash and burn.

This is a familiar refrain here on MN though.

Interested at what point "supportive" becomes "controlling" in people's minds.

Has anybody else been on to parental control and limited the amount of time the xbox can be used? I asked dh to do this ( I don't know the password), he wouldn't do it because didn't want to limit his weekend use.
I wanted him limited to 2 hours a day, dh said ds could limit himself, which of course hasn't happened. My other concern is that he doesn't do any activities, at school or otherwise, and is starting to put on weight. ( he gave up scouts, didn't like cadets, doesn't play sport, I make him go to 'fitness Friday' after school)
I worry about him so much. Dd is the pole opposite, and doesn't have a spare day of the week.

Worstmistake - hmm. I wonder if buying the x box isn't the answer to your username? When we banned minecraft during the week DS was a bit grumpy but before the end of the evening turned round and said actually it was a good idea. He is, incidentally, bigger than me (I am quite wee).

Elephants - well, I take different approaches with different kids but yes, DS needs to be more independently conscientious and hopefully he will be but right now he needs to get into good habits so being a bit more 'do your homework' with him than I am with the other two is necessary right now otherwise he won't get to college, Uni etc. He's already more diligent than he was.

DD2 discovered the 'games' option on my maths last night after ballet and we spent ages being crap at snooker. It was brilliant and also, apparently, educational! although in our case we learned v thoroughly that we can't do computer snooker. And neither can the other two. One of the kittens did a better job when she walked across the mouse pad.

I don't understand why people even own x boxes. I really don't. It's just buying trouble (at a hefty price).

hak I think it's always just beyond what each of us are doing by way of support .

rabbit I think lots of teens actually do want us to keep them on line. They know on their hearts they don't always make good choices.

How much we do depends on our own upbringing, our personalities, our DCs personalities, our situations, our culture ...

Well for me 'mummy-approved' books/music etc crosses that line. I'm not trying to be goady Hak, and I know it works for you but it makes me deeply uncomfortable.

I discussed this with my Y12 daughter last night and her face was like this . Her view was that the act of exploring these things and developing your own tastes is as important as where you eventually end up, and that unless you were seriously culturally-deprived you'd come across them in the course of your normal life. She's chosen English as one of her A Levels and is exceptionally well-read, but she has chosen to read those books herself (although many of them were on our shelves already).

Where involvement in homework is concerned I think it's less clear-cut and I wouldn't class checking planners etc as 'controlling' and certainly not in the early years of secondary. It's just that I don't think it's the best approach although I accept it works for some people. I do think, though, that by the time they hit Y10/11 they have to be taking responsibility themselves, not least because the amount of work makes it almost impossible for a parent to be on top of it. Ditto Sixth Form.

"Well for me 'mummy-approved' books/music etc crosses that line. I'm not trying to be goady Hak, and I know it works for you but it makes me deeply uncomfortable."

Really? Even if it's only for an hour a day and only then when there isn't an hour's worth of homework to do? Of course finding your own tastes and interests is important- and there are loads of hours left in the day to do that!

Marni - I pretty much agree with you about books and music. But there's no denying that the stuff my kids read and listen to is ultimately determined by me largely because I buy it or fund it. But I don't force any one of them to listen to a specific bit of my choice in music - Or to read my specific choice in books (Hak - neither of the girls have ever touched EBD or AF :( Luckily they both adore DWJ so that's ok). I choose the plays and shows we go to, too, in the main, because I'm not shelling out money on something I don't want to see except in exceptional circumstances. But on the other hand, if one of them makes a case for something I've not necessarily been wild about, I might change my mind.

Different children need different rules. All my children are totally different and change all the time so I have to keep adapting.
Xboxes should be banned during the week IMO, that hour or two could be spend doing something more productive or even just resting.
My DS1 is now on his Iphone more since I took the xbox away, what can I do take the phone? Its a never ending battle....... I just want him to do his bloody homework ahhhh

It's not the amount of time spent that bothers me though, it's the whole notion of 'approved' music or literature and that only those can be looked at in that time, however short.

But Hak, if I was going to institute a coercion zone (and having also checked with DD1 last night she reminded me we did have what could have been a daily dr who coercion zone when she was about 5 but after the first ten minutes it became less coercion from me more enabling a nascent addiction) I wouldn't waste that on Brahms or King Soloman's mines. I'd be looking at introducing stuff they wouldn't get automatically at school.

I think there definitely is a case for widening horizons, but in a non coercive way. For the AS short story thing DD1 is the only person who has plough end her own furrow and not chosen one of the writers suggested by the teacher. This has been regarded as completely off piste and daringly envelope pushing. To me, the author she has chosen is hardly outrageous. And she herself thought she was going for a really safe choice and was amazed it was regarded as daring.

There's approved and approved though. DD1 has given DD2 strict instructions not to talk about some of the books she has read at school. Mind you considering the debacle with the Unsuitable Book she brought home last term, I think that we don't really need to worry.

Rabbit yes, as I said, I acknowledge that we inevitably have some influence over what they read and listen to simply because they are exposed to our choices in the course of family life. But both my DC also take a lot of books out of the school library, buy books with pocket-money, and listen to music that I have never heard of! And I absolutely leave them to it. I would never make them read/listen to anything.

Where theatre is concerned mine and DD's taste genuinely overlap so it's never an issue.

DS (Y8) would rather go to a football match and I'm not about to start insisting he goes to the theatre. I think he'll come to it in his own time much as he did with reading for pleasure. He came to that fairly late but now reads a lot and I think that's because he was left to read whatever he wanted (even if I sometimes despaired of his choice!)

I do find this very interesting. How do people feel about schools issuing reading lists? Is that OK?

Could I substitute mum approved for mum suggested?

Well reading lists that we've had tend to be suggested titles but the DC are still able to choose something else if they want (apart from set texts obviously).

Wrt changing mum approved to mum suggested, that's semantics unless they're allowed to ignore your suggestions and choose something completely different

Do you think the whole "an hour of homeworky stuff a day" idea is coercive too?

Do you think the whole "an hour of homeworky stuff a day" idea is coercive too?

I do a bit, yes. The DC get a fair amount of homework and if they happen to not have any set that's a chance for a homework-free night in this house.

I do think that reading regularly is important though, and if they weren't doing it of their own volition I can see me insisting on a bit of reading every night. But they'd choose the book/newspaper/whatever unless it was the Daily Fail. I've never had to do it though (well not since DS was in primary school and they had to do 20 minutes a night anyway)

What if they didn't get much from school?

DS1 is at secondary. I never look at his homework planner. Before the Y7 start, I had talked with him, make sure he understand that his secondary education is very important for him. And he agreed to finish his home work every day. So everyday , after he come home, he would have a rest then finish his homework first. that usually takes 1 hour. And the rest time is his time. But we have also agreed that he only play games at Fri, Sat and Sun. And he watches TV for 1 hour after dinner every day.

I always think game can be addictive, and it makes you forget your other important stuff. If you let your children play everyday, they would rush through their home work and think about it all the time.

Also, I think supportive parent mean you intrested in their education, you make them aware that education is the most important thing at this stage. I ask what's happening at his school everyday, and talk about his activities at school, cheer for his achievement. I asked about his exam result, what his positition in his class, we always read through his end of year report together, talk about what his weakness that he need to improve. But I never checked his homework, his text book, I think he should manage that himself.

The reason I write this post is I am so surprised that some parents really care for their children's education, but allow their children to play long time games everyday.

You can't have 'mum approved' reading lists when your DD is a school librarian and helps herself to GoT off the sixth form shelves.

My DDs have their own world of teen fiction, YouTube blogs and fan fiction that enriches their life immeasurably.

No way do I have a right to suggest they read Jane Austen and listen to Mozart instead. (In any case I've never read a classic novel in my life and wouldn't know where to start with serious music).

In any case DD1 loves Romeo and Juliet and sings in Latin from choice, so not forcing culture down their throats doesn't mean they don't find it.

Interesting and fairly relevant excerpt sourced from New York Times

Steve Jobs introduced the world to the iPhone and the iPad, but he didn’t let his kids use these devices, according to the New York Times.
“They haven’t used it,” Jobs allegedly told [New York Times reporter Nick] Bilton in 2010 after the reporter asked him if his children loved the iPad. “We limit how much technology our kids use at home.”
Bilton explains that he was shocked and confused by Jobs’ answer at first, but goes on to say that he now knows that many leaders in the tech industry have adopted similar philosophies.
“I’m sure I responded with a gasp and dumbfounded silence,” Bilton writes in the article. “I had imagined the Jobs’s household was like a nerd’s paradise: that the walls were giant touch screens, the dining table was made from tiles of iPads and that iPods were handed out to guests like chocolates on a pillow. Nope, Mr. Jobs told me, not even close”…
Reports note that Steve Jobs placed a huge importance on face-to-face interaction with his children and stressed to them the important of books and education.

In any case I've never read a classic novel in my life and wouldn't know where to start with serious music"

Ah. Now I would be very sad if my children said that when they are grown up.

The mum-approved list isn't all classics and serious, by the way. Interesting that you automatically assume that.