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Advice wanted on wording this letter

380 replies

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 19:36

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX,
We are writing to express our concern about the Year 8 Religious Studies Visit scheduled to take place this September.
Parents have been informed that girls who wish to attend the trip are required to wear trousers and a headscarf as a mark of respect for the religious institutions they will be visiting.
It is also our understanding that girls who do not wish to wear the headscarves or trousers, or whose families feel it does not accord with their beliefs, will be working on their own at school that day on Religious Studies coursework.
While I fully appreciate the need to dress respectfully on a visit to any religious institution, I feel I must draw a line at my very young daughter being compelled to wear clothing items intended for women to express their sexual modesty. Just as I feel it would be utterly wrong to compel a Muslim girl to remove her headscarf in order to participate in a school activity, so I feel it is wrong to compel my daughter, or any other girl, to wear one.
It would be very easy for us to simply agree to this request on the basis that the headscarf may be seen as nothing more than a temporary fashion accessory, to be worn for an hour or so. However, I am sure that a Muslim would not regard it as such, and nor do we. While respect for religious traditions is surely admirable, is it not the case that respect for our views as atheists and feminists are equally worthy of consideration?
We would urge the school to consider whether such an approach does truly promote community cohesion surely with a little more communication, an agreement could be come to which is mutually agreeable to all. We would hate to think that any girls first exposure to Islam would be one of unnecessary compulsion.
Perhaps an agreement that girls have the symbolism of the headscarf explained to them, and are given the option to wear one on the day, would be more conciliatory. Or at the very least, that an option is given to those girls who choose to abstain that is not tantamount to an internal exclusion.
Given these objections, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of having to choose between our sincerely held beliefs and putting our daughter in a position where she feels excluded and socially isolated.
We therefore reluctantly give our permission for her to attend on the day and follow the strictures set down, but do ask that you give serious thought to our concerns about this matter.
We would like to thank the school for their choice of role models for the girls, such as Rosa Parks and Emmeline Pankhurst, women who understood that following social conventions is not always the best choice to make.
Thank you for your time,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

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montrealmum · 08/07/2014 23:04

Happy gardening, Can't understand why that seems inappropriate! Surely your religious beliefs aren't a filthy secret! Coming from North America myself I think it's important to be forthright and honest about what you believe. Where I come from, being an atheist is akin to telling people you eat babies as a hobby.

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montrealmum · 08/07/2014 23:10

Brilliantly said. If you invited your Buddhist friends for dinner, would you put steak on the menu?
I rest my case.

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TalkinPeace · 08/07/2014 23:11

Montreal Chill.
The more of an issue you make of it for your DD, the more she will wonder if there is something in it.
Most intelligent people grow out of religion. Give her that chance.

The USA is still very immature on that one - in part because religion is NOT studied in mainstream schools so parents' views are NOT diluted.

proudmama2772 · 08/07/2014 23:14

Hi montrealmum

chiming in again as you're not getting much support - and I can't believe itShock. I've been called a bigot for stating I don't agree with encouraging young girls to wear a head scarf if they don't agree with the practice in principle. If a Muslim institution was offended by me not wearing a head scarf I wouldn't go. If the idea is to teach religious tolerance maybe take the girls to a Muslim institution that won't be offended if they choose to loose the head scarf.

I would never encourage my daughter to as well. I think its a sexist practice. I think a lot of the posters attacking you are really simple minded and have some really weak arguments.

happygardening · 08/07/2014 23:16

I don't know because I don't know anything about Muslims Sikhs or whatever region we're talking about. But as far as Im aware neither are keeping their beliefs a "filthy secret"
Maybe when your daughter is in this religious institution presumably with her head covered she will learn why they believe in this, she may not agree with them just as I don't agree that cows are Gods but she will know why and hopefully respect them and maybe realise it doesn't do any harm to anyone and they are not saying all should cover their heads just that in their religion you cover you heads.
As I said Im a dyed in the wool atheist it's not akin to eating you babies where I come from, I am forthright about what I believe but I also try to be understanding respectful and tolerant of those with different beliefs because this is what I hope people will be of mine.
I hope and if I was religious would pray above all for a tolerant respectful caring society where people are free to believe what they like as long as it doesn't harm others.

TalkinPeace · 08/07/2014 23:20

Catholic women wear the smallest monokinis on the beach, but cover up in church.
Sikhs wear jeans and teeshirts to go for lunch but dress modestly in the temple.
Jewish men keep a skull cap in their laptop cases for when they go to the synagogue.

Religion exists.
A lot of it is offensive, but locking horns with it is rarely productive.
Respecting other people's places of worship is appropriate.

FFS
anybody who walks on the raised beds in my veg garden knows they have trespassed. Wink

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 23:25

Talk in peace, if you read my original letter you would see that I am giving my daughter that opportunity. I fear it is a bad first exposure to Islam.
Plus, please don't tell me to "chill". V disrespectful. And I am not from the USA. You misread.

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happygardening · 08/07/2014 23:27

No I wouldn't put steak on the table because I would respect his very strongly held views and when he invites me to his house I very politely eat his vegan food even though I loath vegetables/tofu/soya etc, I don't ask him to cook me cheese on toast or BBQ me a steak because I know this would be a completely crass thing to do, that however kind he might be this really would be against his very strongly held beliefs and do you know what I just wouldn't wish to offend him over something which for me is so trivial and unimportant.
Even I can eat the loathsome tofu for one evening.
Maybe you feel feel very strongly about women covering their hair in which case you'd better not let your DD go, this is really the only solution for you, as you are being totally unreasonable to accept them to be waive their beliefs on your behalf or even to write the letter you detail above. Just say no she can't go because of my strongly held beliefs.

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 23:29

Talkin peace,
Do you seriously think locking horns with religion is rarely productive? Does the last 500 years of history not count?

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TalkinPeace · 08/07/2014 23:30

Your name makes it abundantly clear that you are not from the USA, but I am and have never been to Canada.

If she is 11 I'm surprised that this is her first exposure to Islam unless she's not been in UK state school : Eid and Ramadan have been in the KS2 curriculum for years.
You are making a massive issue out of something that left alone might have made very little impact on her.
Kids in the UK study about LOTS of religions (not enough viking myths for my taste sadly) so without parental reinforcement, it all becomes a blur.

montrealmum · 08/07/2014 23:33

The point is, Happy gardening, the headscarf is trivial for neither the Mosque nor I. An 11 year old should not be put in the midst by her school.

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montrealmum · 08/07/2014 23:40

Talkinpeace, we have visited mosques on several other occasions, both in Turkey and Northern Cyprus. As a family, we dressed respectfully, as one would for a Christian church or any other similar situation. We were entirely within keeping with their dress code. Most Turkish women do not wear headscarves, even in mosque, unless, they are praying.

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happygardening · 08/07/2014 23:43

Ok if you don't view it as trivial then don't let her go. It's a free society we live in, some believe headscarves should be worn, others object but we are allowed to have opposing views. As you have clearly been given the option of not allowing her to to if you feel strongly about headscarves then you'd better take the school up on this option. Asking them to waive their beliefs and let you daughter go bare headed into their place of worship is as offensive as me asking my Buddhist friend to serve me cheese on toast when I go for dinner. I don't have to take him up on his invite, it's my choice, just as it is yours, if I really felt I couldn't physically or metaphorically stomach a plate of tofu I would just very politely refuse.

TalkinPeace · 08/07/2014 23:45

Turkish Islam in the west of that country bears little relation to the Pakistani and Bangladeshi traditions that dominate the UK.
Its like comparing a Canadian Christian church with a Maltese one.

happygardening · 08/07/2014 23:48

11 year old are perfectly capable of understanding difference and different beliefs from their own. She I'm sure can understand that you feel strongly about this and that the mosque (assuming that's where she's visiting) also feel strongly about this. Part of growing up is realising that many hold different views but that this does not make them unpleasant people.

TalkinPeace · 08/07/2014 23:52

23:25 I fear it is a bad first exposure to Islam.
23:40 we have visited mosques on several other occasions
Make your mind up OP

montrealmum · 09/07/2014 00:00

If my daughter or I choose not to comply, she will be required to spend the day on her own, excluded from her peers. This is not free choice. If you or I choose not to visit a religious institution, we do something else, that we choose to do. Don't you understand the difference?

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MostWicked · 09/07/2014 00:01

What is your daughter's opinion on all of this, assuming you allow her one of her own.
You could use the opportunity to discuss the issue of head scarves with her. Allow her to experience it, it will improve her understanding. It may well strengthen her/your opinion that they are wrong. It certainly won't do her any harm.

montrealmum · 09/07/2014 00:02

Nothing to make my mind up about. Visited mosques as tourists see beautiful architecture.

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differenttoyou · 09/07/2014 00:05

If you insist on writing the letter saying that she can go but not wear the scarf then she'll also be excluded by being asked to wait outside. A teacher or TA will also be excluded because they will have to wait with her and then won't hear the discussion taking place inside and therefore won't be able to talk with the children about the visit when they get back to school.

montrealmum · 09/07/2014 00:08

My daughter's opinion is that it is silly girls have to wear something boys don't. But much more importantly, she doesn't want to be seen to be different or do something her friends are not doing. As she is very young, I feel it is obviously my job to make the ultimate decision about what she wears.
.

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happygardening · 09/07/2014 00:10

My DS's first exposure to a very committed Buddhist is this friend of ours, neither may agree with all of his beliefs and hopefully neither will become vegans (I feel very strongly about veganism/vegetarianism by the way probably as strongly as you OP feel about hard scarfs). But both are impressed with a kind generous gentle individual who genuinely practises what he preaches. They are able to see beyond the veganism which they also don't believe in to the sort of man he is and they like admire and respect him.
I work with Muslims all in head scarfs they too are decent kind individuals often very amusing but who take their religious beliefs seriously i respect this. I see the person not the headscarf. You should encourage your DD to do the same.

montrealmum · 09/07/2014 00:15

Different to you, please carefully read my OP. I have not, and never will, try to insist that she go in to a mosque without a headscarf.

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happygardening · 09/07/2014 00:18

Well OP dont send her to school on the day of the trip, take her to the zoo, or the theatre or somewhere you think she will enjoy. No one can force you to send her to school either. Write the school a letter if you feel that strongly about it, saying you feel very strongly about her being made to show respect to someones religion wear a headscarf and you don't want her to be at school on her own for the day, "excluded from her peers" therefore unless they can provide alternative entertainment for her then you will be keeping her at home for the day.
OP do you not wonder if she's the only one not going because of this wearing of a headscarf that you're not slightly over reacting?

montrealmum · 09/07/2014 00:23

Happy gardening, I find it very troubling that you seem to regard my feminist beliefs as some sort daft prejudice or silly peccadillo. Far be it from me to suggest that one's religious beliefs are merely a way of ascribing your prejudices to an imaginary friend. ...

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