How clever to get into Grammar school?

[mumtobealloveragain]

Hi all, hoping for some advise please...

Our local secondary school is awful, gradually been getting worse. The nice one we thought my daughter would go to has for gradually better so much so that we now find ourselves outside of their "catchment" area as it's become more and more popular.

We have a lovely grammar school not far away. But how clever do they need to be to pass grammar school entrance exams/11 plus?

We can't afford a tutor. My daughter is bright but not genius/exceptionally so. Her 3 class year group are split into 3 ability groups for English and maths and she is in the top group for both. So she's in the top third of ability for the year. Is that enough? I'm thinking probably not and that they need to be "exceptionally" clever to pass the 11 plus?

Thanks x

I would echo steppemum and MrsSteptoe. Yes, there is a fair bit of maths to get through, but it is vocab where a grammar place is lost or won. I would just look at 2 words a day and get your dc to write out 5 synonyms and 5 antonyms. Knowing more words will help their creative writing, comprehension and verbal reasoning, so a win all round. I'd read something where a child of this age should still be gaining around 1,000 new words a year (which is nearly 3 a day).

The grammars and indies are finding it increasingly hard to be able to differentiate between the top 25% of pupils, especially with many school automatically cover L6 maths. Vocabulary seems to be being used as the differentiator.

Hi there,

I saw a lot of mentions of the % of kids that get into grammar from the Kent area compared to the Bucks area. Does anyone know what that % looks like for the Rugby area? They have grammar schols there too..

Our local grammar required 95%+ for acceptance. Around level 5's at end of year 6 and she passed in easily

This is a late comment on this threadbut am looking for options for schools for my three children. They presently attend a gifted school in urban area in the US. School is diverse on all fronts and very challenging curriculum. Any ideas where to start on finding a similar experience. Oldest is 11 now and will be aged 12 in the year we'd attend. We are not a high-achieving family (though kids are strong students) and I doubt our kids are comparably accomplished either in terms of gunning for grammar schools, but I don't want to rule it out. What test would a 12-year-old take? 11s plus is outoddly finding it hard to get clear info on this. I figure they stand a decent chance of scoring well on that (with prep) as their school emphasizes critical thinking and creativity.

You really need to target and area and school as grammar schools are few in number compared to comprehensives. Then you need to check qualification criteria and exam board. Google eleven plus forum for more detailed information. Grammar schools in UK do not operate the same.

From what I've heard average kids get into grammar schools with tutors and coaching. Otherwise they more or less have to be very bright indeed. This is why I'm not keen on the grammar school system. She will be up against kids who are tutored. Sorry if that isn't helpful but I think that's the way it is from what I've heard from people with DCs at GS.

London and surrounding. Need to commute or live in London for work. Someone recommended Surrey to start research in. I lived in London for many years in the past so am fairly familiar. Was trying to avoid the expat bubble of international schools as we might be there permanently, but looks slim for our chances.

For Grammar places after the usual round of entry you are looking at in-year places. They are very rare and when they do come up the usual practice is for those wanting a place to sit an age appropriate test and it could be twenty sitting for one place. DD is at a superselective grammar and we only did home familiarisation. London Borough of Bromley is a nice leafy suburb with good links into London and good local schools.

Very much depends on the school and the locality. At my son's grammar school, the "pass" mark was said to be around 70% and tutoring wasn't common at all. (6 years ago). The 11+ was fully multiple choice, with no written answers nor essays, and no interview. 9 out of my son's primary school class of 30 went to the grammar, and the primary school certainly isn't in an affluent area and has a couple of estates of council/social housing, so not a leafy millionaire suburb! I believe that the number of applicants was roughly double the number of places, so around half the applicants were awarded a place.

I've read with horror what you have to go through in the super-selective areas which really is absurd, but understandable due to the competition for places, when some have applicants 10 fold for the number of places so only a tenth will secure a place!

I think you really have to look closely at each proposed school, it's catchment area, the schools around it, local social/economic factors, talking to other parents, etc., to start to understand what type of grammar school your local one is, i.e. whether or not it's super-selective. I honestly don't think you'd get a child into a super-selective without a lot of tutoring.

The issue with tutoring 'average' children for grammar school places is that once those children actually start the school, they will struggle. They will need constant tutoring to be able to keep up with the demands of a grammar school.

I'm strongly against tutoring to pass the 11+. It's an aptitude test, if your child is capable of passing it, they should do so without being coached. I went to a private school and saw vast amounts of children struggle because they'd been taught to pass the entrance exam, but not to cope with the subsequent years of hard work.

That's not to say you can't prepare them, by doing past papers at home. But if they really struggle with the past papers, I'm afraid coaching them to pass will not serve them well for the rest of their time at school.

I'd say that if your DD is bright and you have a year to prepare, you should be fine if your DD is willing to put the work in.

DS1 is about to start at a super selective boys grammar next week. He's bright - not a genius - and also rather lazy sometimes, if he's honest.

I found out what type of exams were being sat for the 11+ at his school. They were different to the ones taken at many schools in 'Grammar Areas' (only one girls and one boys' grammar school round here, everywhere else is High Schools selective on the grounds of religion, siblings, distance from school etc. The 11+ here contained Maths, English (Comprehension) and English (Verbal Reasoning). They do not do the Non Verbal Reasoning tests. So that's the most important thing to check first of all. No point in your DD revising something like mad for a year when it's not even tested, or worse, not realising that something is tested when it is worth 30% of the marks!

I bought DS some practice tests (he did 3 or 4 I think) from the exam board, and we went through them together. He had a tutor once a week for six weeks before the 11+ test day, who did the same with him, had him doing similar exercises which developed the correct skills and she set him homework to do. That's it. I didn't make a huge thing of it, just explained that it always makes sense to practice when doing any sort of test or exam so that you don't get any nasty surprises on the day.

He passed fine and on the day he came out saying that it had gone exactly as he'd expected, even been a bit easier than he'd expected, as he had known the format and what was likely to come up.

He is a big reader though, which will have helped enormously with English Comprehension. He reads adult novels now, has done for a while, as well as teen novels. We've always had a dictionary by his bed and if he's ever asked for a definition of a word I've encouraged him to look it up. He has a good vocabulary which was commented on right from him being tiny. His natural talent isn't English though (must to my distress as I studied English Literature), he's a Maths lover and this is where his enthusiasm is generally.

Anyone know much about TWGGS in Tunbridge Wells? How difficult is it to get in? What's it like once there?

TWGGS is hard to get into, not only due to the test scores you need but also because places are in high demand. Realistically you need to live within 1.5 miles of the school. We live in a village in west Kent and most girls go to Weald of Kent or ToGs, which is a super selective. Boys usually end up in Judd or Skinners School. Both are super selective as far as I'm aware.
Weald of Kent is a brilliant school Mikaza, are you in the catchment area?

Also worth noting is that St Gregory's (catholic) and Bennett Memorial (CofE) are both fantastic schools in West Kent, so you don't need a grammar school place to get great education here. We're very lucky.

I live 1.1 miles away from twggs.

Bennett Memorial is a selective school in its own way as it is religious and takes children whose parents attend church regularly. Not sure about St Gregs.

Weald is one of the few that has traditionally given places to those outside its priority parishes, Children in Orpington have had places the past few years for example.

St Gregs is the same unfortunately, but if you happen to be a church goer you can apply to either, regardless of denomination.

The local priest practically begged me and DH to start attending with the DCs, on the promise he could basically guarantee us a place at Bennett. We politely declined, as neither of us are religious, but he said 'ahh but none of them are! They only attend to get a school place'
We still declined nonetheless.

The test is Thursday here in Kent
Cannot wait til it's over
Dd has been practising all summer

We're not religious. We're out of catchment for Skinners Kent Academy. TWGGS seems to be the only option...

Skinners is a boys grammar anyway Mikaza
How about WoK? Or Tonbridge?

No I meant Skinners Kent Academy, not Skinners Grammar.
Tonbridge is superselective so not a realistic option.
WoK is an option but it seems such a shame as we're so close to twggs.