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Secondary education

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Original poster

Has anybody successfully tutored for the 11+ completely by themselves(need reassurance)

261 replies

Blueskiesandbuttercups · 27/05/2013 16:39

DS year 4 desperately wants to go but we can't afford tutoring.He is bright,driven and I was a teacher so in theory it shouldn't be too hard.

His friend is also going for it but they're well off so tutoring and have already started.Ds is nagging me to get started.

Sooo went on the 11+ forum typed in the school to order books and I'm already in a pickle.They cost £££££ so need to get it right. We like CPG but loads are listed we haven't heard off. Would it be ok to just go with Bond and CPG or should we go with exactly those listed?

Is it possible to do this ourselves or am I deluding myself? If I screw this up I'll feel like shit- forever! Need lots of reassurance.

OP posts:
HabbaDabba · 29/05/2013 22:30

Puts up hand.

As the exam date approached DS did a test every night.

Original poster
Blueskiesandbuttercups · 29/05/2013 22:40

Not sure all were meant for disadvantaged kids. Skinners was just for local kids.

Also re "disadvantaged" my dad was dirt poor but I'm pretty sure my uber bright grandma who should have gone to uni instead of into service will have prepared him as much as she was able. Many children from very disadvantaged backgrounds will be going to Outstanding primaries,many mc kids will be going to shit primaries.Confused

OP posts:
CatherineofMumbles · 30/05/2013 08:28

seeker why hijack a thread where an OP is simply asking for practical advice, and try to take it off track. Why not instead start your own thread to bore everyone with your hobbyhorse raise your concerns?
Also, interesting that I seem to remember you starting at least two threads recently trying to tap up Cambridge admissions tutors on tips to get your own DC into Cambridge even tho' his/her grades were not up to normal entrance requirements Hmm. Don't you think, (according to your own 'logic' about tutoring for selective schools), if your own DC hasn't the ability to get the grades s/he might struggle when s/he gets into a demanding course at a top Uni?

saintlyjimjams · 30/05/2013 08:48

OP was seeking reassurance that she could prepare her son herself. This is a valid concern IMO considering the response I received in real life whenever I said we were preparing/tutoring ds2 ourselves. Much gasping and raising of eyebrows. It does appear to be a commonly held belief that if you don't pay for tutoring your child won't get in.

The OP wasn't asking whether it should be called tutoring or preparation or whether that's fair or not, she was just asking whether it's possible to get a child through the 11+ without forking out for a tutor. The answer is clearly yes, along with some suggestions of the type of approach that has worked for others. Not sure why that needs to turn into a discussion of whether preparation is tutoring - that wasn't being asked.

seeker · 30/05/2013 08:50

Oh do shut up and read the thread, Catherine. I didn't derail. Or at least not singlehandedly anyway- I gave helpful factual advice. And the OP seems quite interested in the discussion on tutoring.

And I wasn't asking for tips on how to get my dd into Cambridge.Grin Although if anyone has a spare place in thir back pocket....(Joke, by the way). I merely asked whether it was worth her while applying. And I started two threads because it was suggested that I had started the first one in the wrong place. So enough with the ad hominems. Don't waste everyone's time.

saintlyjimjams · 30/05/2013 08:56

Oh OP not sure it's been mentioned but we found the Bond ten minute test papers good. Easy to do after school & they often focus on one area so easy to see bits that had been missed or misunderstood at school

seeker · 30/05/2013 08:59

And (this is positive heresy!) Nintendo Brain Gym is fantastic for speed and accuracy while not feeling too much like work.

HabbaDabba · 30/05/2013 09:13

Nintendo Brain Gym? But what about disadvantaged children whose parents can't afford to buy them one? I thought that you was against anything that stacks the odds in favour of well off families? Grin

Sorry seeker. I just couldn't resist it.

seeker · 30/05/2013 09:33

"Many children from very disadvantaged backgrounds will be going to Outstanding primaries,many mc kids will be going to shit primaries."

Of course. My point is that it doesn't matter how outstanding or not your primary school is, you are unlikely to pass the 11+ without some sort of outside help. Don't worry about the quality of your child's primary school- the stuff you need to pass the 11+ is mostly not taught in any state primary school. So your child won't be disadvantaged because of the school he's at- there's one layer of parental guilt/paranoia you don't have to feel!!

RussiansOnTheSpree · 30/05/2013 09:38

The 11+ is different from county to couth and in some instances from school to school. Talking about 'the 11+' as if it was just one thing is silly.

seeker · 30/05/2013 09:43

Of course. But the OP talked about VR and NVR. What I posed applies to both- wherever in the country you are. And whatever school you are applying to.

HabbaDabba · 30/05/2013 09:46

The OP isn't going to out herself by naming schools (if she has then I must have missed it). In the absence of that info all people can do is talk about it as if the 11+ is one thing.

gazzalw · 30/05/2013 10:05

I agree with Saintlyjimjams about the raised eyebrows and puzzled looks from parents who've thrown money at a tutor, when you say you're helping your child(ren) yourself. It's sheer incredulity on their part that this is possible.

But it is so possible and as some have suggested on here, and I can testify to from our experiences with DS and children from his school, it is often the ones who are not officially tutored who do get in rather than the ones who are.

I think if you have a naturally bright, keen to go to a grammar school type child, parental guidance on the 11+ exams is enough. As I've said before I think a lot of middle-class parents think that if you throw enough money at at tutor even an average child can get in. That isn't the case generally.

DS did three 11+ exams in the same borough and every 11+ exam was different. Interestingly he did better (well he got places at two out of the three) in the exams which did include an NVR/VR component as well as English and Maths.

Original poster
Blueskiesandbuttercups · 30/05/2013 11:16

That's encouraging to hear Gazz,I suspect if more parents knew that they'd give it a go.Have to say I did say no originally as thought he'd have no chance without tutoring,then suddenly realised I can teach,I have the Internet so why not give it a go.Several kids we know from other schools pay as much as £30 an hour - it's eye watering.ShockI do wonder what you get for that.

Having said that I could fall flat on my face if he doesn't get in Grinbut to be honest covering holes and a bit of exam technique should be enough.This is his deal so if he changes his mind(possible) hours of study under duress won't be happening.

They ought to make a parent guidance pack,I guess that is what the Forum tries to do.

OP posts:
tiredaftertwo · 30/05/2013 11:22

I've done it both ways, a bit. I think tutors can be great if your child won't work happily with you, you've got grumpy younger dc around, or you can't do the darned NVR yourself (hangs head in shame....), and English can be tricky as no right or wrong. But OP, do be reassured that it is perfectly possible, it is not rocket science and maths, VR and NVR all have answer books Smile. It is mainly just regular, focussed practice that is needed - and you would be having to facilitate that, tutor or not. The raised eyebrows are often IME from people who like to think there is some magic because the thought of having to sit through all those past papers with their dc makes them want to weep (understandably).

Start in plenty of time, and try to make it fun, little and often so it becomes routine (Bond do ten minute tests which we found great). You know your child well, and also as you are only tutoring one, will be able to get completely up to speed on the exact requirements of those particular exams.

Even if the exam includes maths and your ds is behind because of his school, just working through the books will bring him up to scratch if he is bright. I recommend a bit of maths before breakfast every school day if that suits your working pattern.

gazzalw · 30/05/2013 13:40

And an added bonus is that I'm pretty sure doing the prep for the 11+ exams helps with their end of Year 6 SATs too.....

DS's class scored second highest in the Borough for Level 5 attainment and I'm pretty sure it had quite a lot to do with a lot of them having sat for at least one (or more) selective exam earlier on in the year, rather than their formalised teaching (they didn't have a very good teacher that year!)

BellaGallica · 30/05/2013 16:41

11+ tutoring seems to be a very lucrative business, so there are lots of people with a vested interest in making it sound like something to be left to highly-paid professionals. When I went to an open evening at DD's school, there were tutors openly handing out fliers and touting for business outside the school.

I would strongly encourage anyone to have a go themselves if they and their child are keen. The tests are aimed at 10-11 year olds and the books all have the answers and explanations, so it's really not rocket science. You need time, patience, some confidence and a child who is bright and motivated. It's a total myth that you MUST have a professional tutor to have any chance of winning a place.

gazzalw · 30/05/2013 16:51

I think the whole tutoring industry plays on parental insecurities.

I really enjoyed telling the tutor 'touts' "no thanks, but we are doing it ourselves!" - they looked less than amused....

HabbaDabba · 30/05/2013 18:06

Posters keep going on about tutors praying on parent's insecurities as if parents are feeble minded idiots.

No, I am not a tutor but its irritating to read this blame culture thing over and over again. How about the parents taking responsibility for their actions?

Talkinpeace · 30/05/2013 18:29

Habba
I took DS to see a tutor about a specific issue. It was sorted in two sessions. I've not been back.
She's not happy as she treats each kid as a multi year "project gravy train where she keeps finding more issues that "need work"
and they don't.
But when the "professional" tells you they do ....

gazzalw · 30/05/2013 18:44

No I don't think parents are feeble-minded idiots at all, far from it. However, I do think that a lot of parents do think that tutors have some magic 'insider' information.....

breadandbutterfly · 30/05/2013 18:54

Agree - almost any parent who's not half-witted can tutor their own dc better than a tutor. You know your child, you can fit in lessons when convenient/not tired, not when it suits a tutor, you know when your dc is bullshitting or being lazy and can hassle them to pull their finger out whereas a tutor doesn't know and wouldn't dare.

Plus it's free!

What's not to like?

IME, dcs tutored by tutors were unsuccessful at 11+ whereas those tutored by parents were successful.

It's a myth that only professionally tutored kids get in - put about by tutors who make a nice living out of pushing this idea.

breadandbutterfly · 30/05/2013 18:56

And there really is no 'magic' insider information. Known only to tutors.

Anything you want to know a quick google will reveal to you as well as to a tutor.

RussiansOnTheSpree · 30/05/2013 19:21

Bread - I think that you're right, any parent who isn't thick can tutor their own child at 11+ level in the right circumstances. Many people have to operate in circumstances which aren't ideal though. Just a thought.

seeker · 30/05/2013 19:24

"Agree - almost any parent who's not half-witted can tutor their own dc better than a tutor"

Provided they have the knowledge,the education, the confidence, the leisure, the language, the time, the space, the inclination......

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