Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 ··· 10 11

Original poster

Has anybody successfully tutored for the 11+ completely by themselves(need reassurance)

261 replies

Blueskiesandbuttercups · 27/05/2013 16:39

DS year 4 desperately wants to go but we can't afford tutoring.He is bright,driven and I was a teacher so in theory it shouldn't be too hard.

His friend is also going for it but they're well off so tutoring and have already started.Ds is nagging me to get started.

Sooo went on the 11+ forum typed in the school to order books and I'm already in a pickle.They cost £££££ so need to get it right. We like CPG but loads are listed we haven't heard off. Would it be ok to just go with Bond and CPG or should we go with exactly those listed?

Is it possible to do this ourselves or am I deluding myself? If I screw this up I'll feel like shit- forever! Need lots of reassurance.

OP posts:

seeker · 29/05/2013 11:32

NVR may be the one that can be advanced by tutoring- but the VR is the one where the children of educated "bookish" parents are most automatically advantaged.

gazzalw · 29/05/2013 11:34

I would say that tutoring is a formalised arrangement which requires the subject(s) studied to be the sole focus of a paid for session. It is in some ways probably easier to consider if one thinks of learning to play an instrument. There is a world of difference twixt Mum or Dad saying "oh that was a duff note/too fast/too slow..." when a child is practising at home and the more focused and expert approach afforded by someone trained musically.

We decided we could help DS with some practice papers because we are graduates (but not in English or Maths and of course not in NVR/VR). But DS fitted what practice he did do around his hectic schedule. He certainly never sat in total silence being timed and we certainly never set down to spend time on specific NVR/VR issues. Much to our shame, because he was always so awkward about doing English we ignored it completely. With maths we helped with the stuff that they hadn't yet covered at school but as far as I recall he said very little of it was included in his various 11+ exams anyway.

I think that amongst the monied, chattering classes there is cache and kudos attached to being able to say "our DCs' tutor". And if the 11+Forum comments are anything to go by, there is a military precision operation to the way the best tutors focus their endeavours with their 'pupils'.

seeker · 29/05/2013 11:34

No it isn't. "Satisfactory " means just that. That list of failings, unless dispute all of that they get good results, would not get a '"satisfactory" rating.

Yellowtip · 29/05/2013 11:38

seeker your vision of education is so circular that I can't get my head around it. I don't think it's about 'bookish' parents at all. I think it's about engaged parents. Anyone can be engaged and interested. We certainly don't spend our time sparring verbally over the kitchen table or discussing books or doing anything which anyone could possibly say was in the least bit intellectually pretentious. The 11+ doesn't require that sort of stuff.

gazzalw · 29/05/2013 11:39

"I have to say that I do find the intensity of some of the schedules for preparation described on MN wholly unnecessary and over the top. Surely a lot of the DC rebel?"

I think it depends where you live. I don't think we would have even done practice papers at all with DS if we lived in an area where the 11+ was taken as a matter of course, but living in an area with not brilliant comps and knowing that DS was deemed to be 'of grammar school standard', with four super-selectives in nearby Boroughs (but with applicant levels at 14 per place) it was necessary to do some familiarisation with the types of papers etc.... All of DS's friends who did the exams with him, did at least some Bond papers prep, regardless of socio-economic background. That wasn't done at all via school (whose Head was actively against hothouse education as she calls it) but with parental input.

Yellowtip · 29/05/2013 11:40

Wrong seeker. Which is why the Ofsted definitions are being tightened up.

Original poster

Blueskiesandbuttercups · 29/05/2013 11:40

Oh should add -Head and govs who don't give a shit to that list.

Should the results take a miraculous Uturn (not impossible)I would perhaps be slightly more relaxed re helping DS towards the 11+(although still slightly worried re our list of woes) but until then a bit of preparation imvho would be prudent.I'd be bonkers not to surely.

OP posts:

CatherineofMumbles · 29/05/2013 11:52

"Well I think the clue is in your DS wanting to do the work and wanting to go to a grammar school. I think you may find that, regardless of his attending a poor-performing school, with your help and his motivation he will achieve his goal!!"

Completely agree with Gazzalw
OP,. the fact that you son is motivated is the biggest asset he has, many of the DC entering will we doing it because their parents want to - self-motivation is the key.
I would second what others have said, ie make sure you and he are completely familiar with the exam format and types of questions, and then closer to the time do under time pressure.
If your dad wants to contribute to the finances, there are tutors who run mock exams, under exam conditions, which is a good thing, because then the 'real' thing is not so scary.
Even better, if there are other schools in the locality with tests earlier than the school he wants, worth registering him, again for the practice. You can register for many indies for £50 a time, which is money well spent to get real exam conditions... we did this with DD, had no intention of going to any of them, just exam practice...

Yellowtip · 29/05/2013 11:52

Yes in that context I think you would be bonkers Blueskies. As things stand you don't get credit in the 11+ for coming from a rubbish school.

gazzalw we're in a superselective area too and I think your approach sounds very measured. I'm talking about the mad and obsessive levels of prep which some describe. My DC would have told me where to get off.

seeker · 29/05/2013 11:52

Yellowtip- did you read to your children? Encourage them to read? Did they see you reading? That's what I meant by "bookish". Not discussing Proust over the tea and madeleines!

seeker · 29/05/2013 11:56

Blueskies- obviously preparation is essential. However. It's not preparation you'd get in any state school. You'd have to do it whatever sort of primary school your child went to, so don't worry about that.

Yellowtip · 29/05/2013 12:01

I'm afraid with so many so young (six under seven at one point) I didn't read with them no. Reading for my own pleasure would have been a luxury too far in those days as well. I certainly couldn't have done it while they were awake and around. I did do their school reading with them though, most of the time, just until they could read. Then they read to themselves. I did buy them books.

seeker · 29/05/2013 12:07

Plenty of books in the house? Reading seen as a normal thing to do? Dictionaries around? Questions thought about and answered, or looked up if you don't know? Younger children seeing older ones reading?

Yellowtip · 29/05/2013 12:19

I know the answers you want seeker but we don't fall into your neat category I'm afraid, with the best will in the world :)

Marni23 · 29/05/2013 12:20

Sorry OP, meant to say, you can absolutely do it yourself as long as you're clear on what will be in the exam and use the relevant practice papers.

And yes, you'd be daft not to do some preparation, regardless of how good or bad your DS's primary school is. The tip about finding somewhere to do a 'mock' is a good one too.

Rainbowinthesky · 29/05/2013 12:30

OP could be describing my dd's school. Bottom percentile for everything and "Satisfactory" rating by Ofsted. Dd is in Y4 and is on her 20th supply teacher so far this year.
We will be trying for SuperSelective and I do some work with her at home when I can. She will have a tutor once a week from September. Most of the benefit of what I do with her and her tutor will be to raise her to a level playing field with those children who go to a good or outstanding school with consistent teachers.
Hardly fair and makes it so much harder for her to have a chance due to being so disadvantaged in comparison to so many of the other dc she will be up against.
Haven't even mentioned yet those at preps with/without tutors.

RussiansOnTheSpree · 29/05/2013 16:03

DD2's school is in special measures. :(

hardboiled · 29/05/2013 16:57

Interesting that some people think of children "tutored" by parents as being disadvantaged. In some cases, it maybe the opposite. I cannot imagine any professional tutor investing as much time, emotional support, interest, etc as we did... So yes, I would definitely say that DS was at an advantage being prepared by the two people who love him most and know him best!!

seeker · 29/05/2013 17:46

"Most of the benefit of what I do with her and her tutor will be to raise her to a level playing field with those children who go to a good or outstanding school with consistent teachers. "

So it's not specifically 11+ tutoring, then?

Thisisaeuphemism · 29/05/2013 18:17

Who said children being tutored by parents are disadvantaged?!
In my experience, people like to say they haven't tutored at all - the twenty practise papers they took don't count because they were in the garden or eating wine gums or something. Maybe they're children look more bright that way?
You have hardly a hope in hell of getting a kid into a gs from an average state primary unless you prepare them for the exam either yourself or by paying someone else.

Phineyj · 29/05/2013 18:29

Satisfactory definitely doesn't mean satisfactory. I've recently qualified as a teacher and we got a briefing sheet that said so. Twas a bit Orwellian.

I don't think innate intelligence gets you very far without exam technique, tbh.

OP, I am sure you can prepare your motivated child.

flamingtoaster · 29/05/2013 19:03

I prepared both DS and DD for the 11+ . We did 10 or 15 minute sessions when we started preparation, practice papers as the time got closer - and one run through with the exact timings of what would happen on the day so it wasn't a surprise! I think the parent preparing the child is much better than using a tutor - you can analyse your DC's errors and target their practice very efficiently. Many tutors simply run through lots of papers without identifying the individual child's problem areas.

seeker · 29/05/2013 19:52

Parents prepare.

Tutors tutor.

Same thing- different names.

Yellowtip · 29/05/2013 21:40

I must be missing some subtlety here seeker. Please can you explain to me what is so socially invidious about parents buying a set of practice papers or sitting down with their DC to try to help them with any stuff which might be helpful for the 11+. These are 10 year olds, the stuff they're doing isn't rocket science. Do you really expect all parents to down tools just to give totally disinterested parents a chance to slack off?

That's a totally separate issue from paid for tutoring and a separate issue again from the fact that some parents obsess to an alarming degree, but their kids are the ones who suffer, not them. I hope actually that this total obsession with 11+ prep is a MN phenomenon, since I've not encountered it in the same sort of measure in RL. Paid for tutoring yes, it's endemic, but mad schedules of tests every night - no, never in RL.

seeker · 29/05/2013 21:58

No I don't. Of course parents who can help will. And as the system stands, obviously, they should.

But the fact that some can/will and some can't/won't means that it is an unfair system. And it means that the children the grammar school system was supposed to help- that is, bright children from disadvantaged backgrounds- are unlikely to benefit. Which is obviously unfair.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 ··· 10 11