Has anybody successfully tutored for the 11+ completely by themselves(need reassurance)

[Blueskiesandbuttercups]

DS year 4 desperately wants to go but we can't afford tutoring.He is bright,driven and I was a teacher so in theory it shouldn't be too hard.

His friend is also going for it but they're well off so tutoring and have already started.Ds is nagging me to get started.

Sooo went on the 11+ forum typed in the school to order books and I'm already in a pickle.They cost £££££ so need to get it right. We like CPG but loads are listed we haven't heard off. Would it be ok to just go with Bond and CPG or should we go with exactly those listed?

Is it possible to do this ourselves or am I deluding myself? If I screw this up I'll feel like shit- forever! Need lots of reassurance.

blueskies not sure which area you're in but if the Reasoning papers are set by GL Assessment, IPS do a starter set of papers designed for younger children (9-10 I think). The IPS papers cover exactly the same question types as GL Assessment so are useful practice. Bond Reasoning papers are ok in the early days but don't cover all the GL types and include types that won't come up.

If you are in a GL assessment area, look at 'Patricia's' method of preparing for VR on the elevenplusexams website. That will give you a clear programme of preparation, including which papers to use in which order.

If you're not in a GL assessment area, ignore all of the above!

"I don't know that a system where tutoring is effective, is all that unfair?"

Not at all unfair. Unless you think that children should have an equal crack at a grammar school place whatever background they come from.

I think any primary school in a gs area should be made to provide a tutoring club once a week for year 5s and gs should provide parent info packs for people like me.All school have long lists of clubs and most teachers are expected to do one a week. With extra PPA I don't think it would that onerous a task.

I also think a ban on privately educated entries would be prudent.

You can never make it completely fair or get rid of the tutoring game so best to beat them at their own game imvho.

Blue - It sounds like you want to fix the system so that it favours you as opposed to making it fairer.

While we are at it, why not ban kids whose parents use to be teachers? After all, they have an advantage over other kids. But wait, didn't you use to be a teacher?

The tutoring club has my vote thugh. Not so sure about the 'should' part. If you are a parent whose DC is struggling with maths/English do you really want to see scarce resources going towards tutoring bright kids for GS exams? Not very fair is it?

Difficult. i don't think school resources go into coaching for the 11+- and if parents have to pay we're back to square one. And while I would cheerfully abolish private education , you can't take away a tax payer's right to a state education.

But a private education makes you a privately educated child and gives you advantages above and beyond everybody else(tiny classes,better resources,no commitment to the NC so time to teach to the 11+ in the school day etc).

Gs are state schools,for state children,surely if you want to be part of it you should be a state educated child.

You can never legislate for parents tutoring,it will happen however much we gnash our teeth.Tutoring after school when kids are knackered isn't as much as an advantage as in school tutoring but it is still an advantage.Anybody who has the cash will use it,ditto the brains (although as I've found out it's bewildering even for teacher parents to wade their way through it and books still cost money).

Sooooo you need to make sure all have the same advantages.I don't think clubs would cost much.As I said teachers are expected to run after school clubs(I did all sorts) for free.Having said that a small amount of PPA time would be helpful but really you're just giving out material and teaching exam technique so a shed load of prep and making wouldn't be involved.Re cost I'd pay a £1 a session,those that couldn't surely it could be dealt with the same as fsm children and school trips/meals etc.

My kids are seriously unsporty and don't benefit from the amount of money and time spent on school fixtures a few go on so clubs benefitting a few isn't an argument

Maybe kids at crap schools should get some bonus points too.

If state run gs are going to exist we can't just pretend they don't and not attempt to make entry a level playing field.

Blue - You being a teacher gives your DC an advantage over some kid whose mum is uneducated. You having the money for an after school club gives your DC an advantage. Having money for 11+ books gives you an advantage etc etc etc.

In anycase, I most likely pay more tax than you. Moot point I know but if you want to ban my kids from applying to a state selective then I like a tax rebate please :)

But Habba it's easy,pull your dc out of private and put them into state education if you don't think it's fair re tax.

Gs are state schools for state kids.

Re the advantage of having an educated parent you're right it is an advantage but at the end of the day the fact you can't legislate for everything doesn't mean you shouldn't try with some of it.

Blue - I have more money than you. You have more money than some mum living on benefits. You don't believe that I should use my money to buy my DCs an advantage over yours but you seem to have no problems using your money to buy an advantage over benefit mom's DC.

Bit of double standards creeping in there, don't you think?

As many people have pointed out before, it doesn't necessarily cost much- if any - actual cash money to adequately prepare a child for the 11+. What it does take is awareness, confidence, time, space, literacy, at least some education and the inclination.

Which is why the system is inherently unfair, the playing field can never be levelled, and why the only equitable thing to do is to get rid of state selective education in the few places it remains, and replace it with properly setted comprehensive education.

If there were clubs money wouldn't come into it.

I am spending £100.

Yes it is more than some will have but if primary schools were geared up to it they could provide a lot of it free with no cost to them.

As it is my kids are in a crap school with crap results and we aren't rich as you so kindly point out.Their only advantage is me,this thread and £100 of books,I may well be a crap tutor so no advantage.

Many poorer kids may well be in Outstanding schools which would counter out the above advantages my kids have.

You can't legislate for every scenario but primary schools doing more and some kind of system which acknowledges concrete/ obvious advantages is needed imvho.

Somebody still has to pay for the clubs!

And being in a "outstanding" school really only affects the maths and English part of the 11+ - and even then only up to a point. Often the test requires maths not covered until well into year 6. And in many areas, the isn't an English component, only VR and NVR, neither of which are taught as part of the normal curriculum.

Out of interest, why have you spent so much?

Much as it pains me to say it but I agree with seeker in so far as banning state selective education is the only fair option if fairness is what you are advocating. Everything else just shifts the advantage to a different group, whether its well of parents like me or cash poor but educated parents like the OP.

Ditto the question about spending so much.

A lot of the schools make about 5 years of past papers available for downloading for free. 5 times x schools was material enough for us. They usually don't come with answers but it shouldn't be much of a challenge for you or I to mark the papers from scratch.

Things like, complete the sequence... I WAS, He WAS, they WERE, you......?

What is the cost?

All schools run after school clubs with no cost, righty or wrongly teachers are expected to run clubs after school and do.You could get a lot of free materials.Not all kids would want to do it and a small fee for those that could would cover the cost for those that couldn't like trips.It is perfectly doable(but not very pc).

By time I've finished I'm suspecting my outlay by my calculations will be £100.Have done one small order for assessment materials+ that book you book you mentioned.I rang CPG(very helpful) they recommended their 11+study books which can assess starting point too.

Judging from MN and the teachers that post here, a lot of teachers are against selective education. Why do you expect these teachers to ..

a) run a club for something that they think is divisive
b) run a club for something that they think is divisive and not get paid for it.

Teachers disagree with a lot of things but have to do them.

I just think it wouldn't take a lot to make it fairer,it is possible. Tbh as you say my dc have me but for those that don't have any advantages it wouldn't take a lot to make it fairer.You can't ban tutoring so making some kind of tutoring available for those that need it seems logical.

I don't think that they 'have to' provide after school tuition in the 11+, at least not without additional remuneration.

No they don't but perhaps they should in areas like Kent.

In Kent ( or at least in my area of Kent- seeker qualifies her statement for th benefit of pedants) primary schools are actively forbidden by the LEA to provide more than a familiarization session for the 11+. If they do ( and many do) they risk- at the very worst, actually getting their exams nullified, or whatever the word is.

It a actually took me nearly 5 hours! I must be slipping......