Dunottar/ Reigate Grammar - Merger, or what?

[quandry]

Got the letter today, and I have to say I don't really understand what is going on?
Is RGS bailing out Dunottar to save it going under?
I can't see the advantages for RGS at all?

Someone suggested that perhaps they'd make it co-ed, less academic school in the future (like a Box Hill in Reigate?) and share facilities more? (Sports fields closer than Hartswood?)

GoGirl - I'm sorry, but now you're the one 'spouting claptrap' as you so delicately put it!

So if Dunottar's numbers and projections 'weren't critical until RG Group interfered' why exactly were they forced to approach RGS as a last resort, 18 months ago?

And just to be clear - RGS isn't targeting Dunottar girls, but yes, it has offered places to some of the families who have approached it. Why? Because that is the right thing to do - not least because many of them already have siblings at the school anyway. Let's face it, RGS would be damned if they didn't, and are being damned because they did!
People will sling the mud whatever...

You can't blame some families for making their own assessment of the situation and moving their girls out. One parent I know said she felt it was worth enduring the inevitable 1-2 months of stress whilst her daughter settled in at RGS, versus the on-going drawn out pain and uncertainty over the next few years of whatever transition may occur.

If all the parents have been sent a letter, and the DV meetings are open, surely that constitutes the information being in the public domain? Or have 200+ people signed NDAs?

Can someone just answer one question though - have UL committed to maintaining it as an independent school for, say, the next 7-10 years? For me, that would be a deal-breaker....

Hi Nikki: just check independent versus what? Are you following the academy tack from earlier? Then, no, it will be independent. Or were you referring to something else?
The info from Saturday's meeting was shared with all Dunottar parents straight after. And DV people are still putting in long hours trying to ensure the governors, parents and immediately prospective parents have the information that they need. And since many also have 'day jobs' this does mean that the comms to the wider public has slipped. Plan is to fix that as soon as there is the bandwidth to do so.

www.dunottarschool.com/library/News_Items/what_is_added_value_final_version.pdf

it is a link from the Dunottar School home page for anyone that can't find it!

We know what value added means, but it doesn't actually give Dunottar's score so we can't compare it with anyone else's?!

It is like me saying that my school's A level results are the best ever. That may be true, but if I can't compare the statement to similar statements made by competing schools, then it is a bit pointless. Don't you think it would be a tiny bit embarrassing to discover that say Dunottar's value added was lower then the local state schools say?

To quote from the D website:

So where is Dunottar School in comparison to other independent schools?
“We believe that we're at the top of the chart!”

Fine, show us the chart then. Which particular schools are you better than? Where is the evidence that it is the top independent school for value added nationally?

So. I think that we can all agree that Dunottar's marketing has been needing an overhaul for a while. And still does. DV can't do anything about this.
Come the new dawn, a solid marketing approach needs to be high on the list, eh?

Gogirl 1 what a breath of fresh air you are when I read your comments. I know, we can't win, They don't want it to close (so they say!) but when there is someone interested in the building we get beaten down. Like you, rather park outside Dunottar with UL running it than RGS anyway . If you really don't like it don't come to us ! simple, but stop banging on about it just do it! Tired and Determined well said. There is probably five or six on here who obviously can't saying anything positive but in the main people want this. You will always get people who are so negative. The sooner we have involvement with UL and nothing to do with our friendly neighbour the better. The girls are still so happy great to see them all smiling. Hopefully we can all move on very quickly. When you are right in the thick of it THEN YOU UNDERSTAND. Just thankful we are waiting and not jumping ship . The thought of RGS leaves me cold. !

I think a few posters have definitely 'outed' themselves here.

200 people haven't signed NDA's that inference is quite ridiculous. The individuals that have signed them are privy to legal issues that no one else has had an insight into yet and those issues may never be revealed, depending on the final outcome, but it is that information that is allowing them to get on with negotiating with RG Group Governors and any potential backer that is on the scene.

In the meantime everyone needs to stop talking Dunottar down and wait a short while when more detail will be in place. RGS parents have their choice of school and some of them have a daughter at Dunottar as well, for very good reasons and would like to keep it that way. The scaremongering that is going on with no real solid information to back it up is damaging to that continued choice in Reigate.

It's difficult to find the value add scores to compare independent schools, the data on education.gov.uk doesn't include value add for the independent sector, it just states not provided. If Dunottar believes that it is at the top of the chart, I guess it can publish the scores, they can't be state secrets, particularly if they are a selling point for prospective parents.
I would certainly agree that the marketing needs a major overhaul, hopefully fresh blood will help this.

At the end of the day, prospective parents and also many current parents will take a pragmatic response to this.
They will weigh up the pros and cons of Dunottar against those of other schools and decide if it is 'best' for their child. Most people value stability and certainty highly. Most people want a school with a proven track record over a number of years, providing the same kind of education, so there are statistics about exam success for the mix of pupils now in the school. People look for stability of staff and staff with a proven track record. Perhaps most importantly, they want to be very clear about what they are signing up to. It goes without saying that they want a school which has enough numbers to be viable into the long term future. People who are paying can be more fussy than most and want to be sure that their 'investment ' is sound and worth it.
People may have an emotional feel for a school, but most will rightly be driven by the balance of answers to the questions above. There will be many who would like to support Dunottar and send their kids there, because they value choice. However, many of them (and also many of the current Dunottar parents who in the end are pragmatic people too, despite their love of Dunottar) won't choose Dunottar in the end, because the risks are too great and whoever is running the school, there will be too many unknowns, which can only become clear over time as the new school develops. it wont be that the information for certainty is being witheld by anyone, jast that it will bemimpossible for anyone to know what a co ed school under UL or anyone else will actually be,mor whatbits strenghts and weaknesses will be, because it just hasnt existed before.

It will be a new school with an unproven track record in serving a different clientele. Unless it was incredibly cheap, why would any pragmatist choose the unknown?

And this isn't about a dislike of Dunottar. It's about the situation it finds itself in. The same would be true of any school with small and declining numbers, looking to diversify under a change of management.

They don't want it to close (so they say!) but when there is someone interested in the building we get beaten down. Therein lies the crux of it. Any investor really is just investing in the building and will create of it what they will.

If you really don't like it don't come to us ! simple, but stop banging on about it just do it! Fine, but that is exactly the attitude which won't attract the extra pupil numbers required.

As to D's marketing , I wonder how much was spent on the billboard advertising by local stations and ads in glossy programmes?

BTW - forgot to respond to your point NikkiSurrey that RGS aren't targeting Dunottar girls. I never said that they were targeting or approaching them what I said was that by their Governor's actions they had paved the way for some very nervous parents to talk to RGS about places if Dunottar closed and they were then offered places conditional on them moving schools immediately (i.e. before the consultation period had ended). Parents were the ones who felt they had no choice. Those actions stank!!

'When you are right in the thick of it you understand' ByeBye

I agree that when you are in the thick of it, you certainly understand the response of the people there. You know how the girls, parents and staff feel. It is all very emotional and horrible. Granted. Those of you who are directly involved do understand that side of things.

But some people who are in the thick of it, don't seem to get the bigger picture. Current parents love of Dunottar and desire to see it work is not enough. Upset and disappointment with the ways things have turned out are not enough. Outrage about the old trustees or about RGS are not enough.

People who are outside of it all, as some posters on here are, can look at the situation dispassionately. I think it is our lack of emotional involvement in it all, is what is upsetting to some people who are parents. No, we don't feel your pain. We can empathise, but we don't feel it and we aren't affected as you are. That is actually our strength. We can look at things more objectively.......and you need that, because it is all too raw, current and painful for some of you. It is almost impossible for some of you to take a step back and look at the bigger issues, beyond keeping your daughters in that building into the future. This is not a criticism of you as parents, just the reality of being involved in a highly emotional issue.

I haven't actually seen anyone on this thread who is anti Dunottar or anti choice. What I have seen is people who are emotionally involved and those who aren't. You need both inputs if a viable future is to be found.

Gogirl1, the only instances where I have heard of that happening is yr9, but practically that is understandable. RGS start GSCE/IGSCE courses in year 9 whereas Dunottar do so in year 10. The later the decision is left the more catching up that would be required, particularly tough with IGSCE which most of RGS's core exams are now.

wait a short while when more detail will be in place Fair enough but all this interim excitement, almost a "we know something you don't know" attitude, and drip feeding of potential plans isn't really helpful in engaging to those on the outside. Maybe a radio silence on the possible outcome/s and focus on the fundraising efforts would be better to maintain awareness short term.

The timing is very unfortunate given that in the intervening month many 11+ and 13+ candidates will be required to commit to other schools , or be upfront that they are actually more interested in D. Had this been Sept - Nov last year I'd have given a solution for a 2014 re-launch more chance of success.

Think I will be a mystery shopper in Reigate tomorrow. First stop costa coffee lol. Thank you for mentioning the ND .. It's called confidential information that's why they signed it and will not disclose on Mumsnet thankfully! Got to laugh... RGS not targeting D that's got to be the biggest laugh on here...yeah right !! DV are working around the clock keeping this working So stop the digs please. As I say there is about five of them on here.....go Dunottar .....!

so byebye1, if the worst were to happen (and I genuinely hope it doesn't , whether you believe me or not !) would you dismiss any offer from RGS. What other options are there for your dd ?

LIZS - there is no 'we know something you don't know attitude' at all!! The only people who know anything more than that which is already being published in open letters on Dunottar Voice which anyone can access are the few subject to NDA's. That content is of a legal nature and it would not be right to disclose anything at the moment.

In the meantime, suggesting that radio/press silence is maintained with regard to information wouldn't be helpful at all. I'd be a millionaire if I had a £ for every time someone has come up to me in the last 3 weeks and said 'I hear Dunottar is closing/closed'. That particular rumour which had spread like wildfire in a couple of days had to be quashed immediately.

I agree with you entirely that had the consultation been announced in Sept last year it would have be much better but given that in Sept last year the Chairman of the Governors stood up at the prizegiving and said that RG Group wouldn't bank roll the school indefinitely (even though it hasn't handed over a penny), I think their plan of action was crystal clear. It was the catalyst that drove some Year 9 parents to look for a Plan B. RG Group have chosen the consultation timing to be right now exactly because it will make it more difficult with 11+ and 13+ candidates being pressured to commit to other schools.

Hit a nerve again...boom! Lol.

Chocolate Wombat has said exactly what I feel.

I have no axe to grind with Dunottar, I know many of the students and parents, and have valued it's role as part of the educational mix in Reigate over the last decade. As I said when I first joined this thread however I abhor this whole 'if you're not with us, you must be against us' attitude.
DV is being very vocal - in the local press, online and via social media, but at the end of the day it is still promoting just one version of events and facts - its own version. There needs to be reasoned discussion and debate, especially when so many of the so-called 'facts' are open to interpretation.

You can't ask the whole community to support you then slap them in the face by insulting their own school and children, nor can you treat them like idiots and drip feed them just the good news you want to promote.

There are lots of intelligent, thought-provoking posters on here and I value their input and opinions to help me make sense of what's going on here.

I don't think anyone is deliberately scaremongering - just asking pertinent questions. Sadly this is how it works in the internet age!

but isn't that exactly what happened in the wake of fundraising and meetings which were discussed on here but not yet released on FB or the website ? Then those who queried it were told they were being negative !

I meant radio silence in the sense of pr focussing away from the actual negotiations details of which can't be released until 13th, into a more proactive research campaign (as per the survey) and looking what is currently happening in terms of events and achievements, thus raising the local profile.

Agree Nikki . byebye1 I'm really not sure what you are implying . I have no invested interest in this either way, other than it could affect friends who I know do care about the school and its ethos, and the profile of education in the area. However MN is a discussion forum and DV/D parents have brought the issue to this forum for comment and presumably to gather info.

GoGirl - T&D below has already said that there IS more information which was sent out to current and prospective parents after Saturday, but hasn't been communicated more widely yet - I guess this is why people here feel that there is an attitude of 'we know something which we're not going to tell you'. That's why I asked if all the parents had been asked not to communicate it further?

Thanks T&D for the answer to my question - good to hear that it will remain an independent school...

ByeBye, just interested to know if you feel those of us not directly involved in any of the schools mentioned, who are writing as interested observers (rather than as Dunottar parents) have anything to add to the whole process? Do you think there is only a place for Dunottar parents to speak?

Are you happy for those who aren't parents to speak, if they are absolutely positive about every new suggestion that is mentioned by DV?
Are you happy for those who are and aren't parents to ask questions or comment?
Are you happy for prospective parents to ask questions?

Nikki, yes I'm sure you are right. It will be a relief to Dunottar parents to see the UL written guarantee that they will be keeping Dunottar independent. If I were a parent there now, I would be keeping my copy of that written guarantee.