Dunottar/ Reigate Grammar - Merger, or what?

[quandry]

Got the letter today, and I have to say I don't really understand what is going on?
Is RGS bailing out Dunottar to save it going under?
I can't see the advantages for RGS at all?

Someone suggested that perhaps they'd make it co-ed, less academic school in the future (like a Box Hill in Reigate?) and share facilities more? (Sports fields closer than Hartswood?)

Apologies for sarcastic last post. It was unnecessary. Sorry, don't want to sink to that kind of thing.

I should have just said, I hope they will provide a guarantee in writing to keep Dunottar independent for a good number of specified years.

I'm even more surprised now.

www.dunottarschool.com/news/statement-from-governors-about-future-options

I thought the UL option was a done deal.
It now appears that RGS are working on other options. The school of governors have to vote on all proposals. Somehow I don't think they will go for the UL option. Based on the weight of RGS v's Dunottar people on the board.

Shame as the parents have worked so hard to get to the UL option.

The legal option is the only route left. This could go on for years. :-(

No, the UL option has never been a done deal, I think some people have got carried away with the proposal, understandably of course because it seems the best option out there to save the school. Or it's the only option that has been publicised. The governors will still have final say on what happens next. From the governors statement it sounds like there are other offers out there, I wonder if we will get to hear of them?!

From reading the statement numerous times I think the RGS Govenors are in a state of panic, they obviously don't know what they are doing, what a dreadfully written confusing mess!

I'm not so sure. I read it as a statement put out by the Dunottar governors to indicate that UL vote isn't a vote by them, and they need to see their (ie UL's) plan, together with those of other bidders before making a decision. In fairness DV aren't exactly making it sound as if it is a terribly cooperative relationship, on one hand trying to find a white knight to help, on the other trying to bring in some hotshot lawyer to "win back the school". As a charity trustee, if I were a Dunottar trustee I would have definitely called my insurers regarding some of the statements put out by DV.

Doesn't sound like the trustees are in a state of panic at all. They are simple stating there are proposals, they want to see viable and robust plans and they won't be pushed into making a hasty decision, absolutely the right course of action. Of course people want certainty as a quickly as possible but the worst thing to do would be to make the wrong decision which ends up with the school closing in a couple of years time.

I don't agree that the legal option is the only way forward. If it became a protracted legal battle where would the confidence in Dunottar be, no one would commit their child to a school in the middle of a legal conflict.

LuckyPup is right, and this is what I meant when I said the campaign was developing problems with people tweeting things like "Dunottar to be saved" etc.
Let's remember that the DV team have no formal power as such, without it becoming a legal battle (which wouldn't be a great idea, as £250k which would have otherwise kept the school open for another year will just go to lawyers instead...).

The DV have (IMHO) been wrong to put out statements to the press such as this one:
"A spokeswoman for the group said: "This is such great news and justifies the faith we have had in the school...

... Obviously the board needs to look at this alongside any other proposals that they've had.

I can't imagine they have a better one but, one way or the other, at least we now know that closure is not necessary."

That just comes across as so petty and narrow-minded!

I see the latest letter from the Governors as simply a response to that kind of release of (mis)information from DV?

The statement sounds very sensible to me. It is what quite a few of us have said. All options must be considered, questions asked of all proposals, and the key thing is that a long term, viable solution is required, not one which is rushed into with haste and later regretted. If remaining open is decided to be viable, the business plan needs to be sustainable in the long run. It is up to the Governors to make sure any business plan isn't just there to get current girls through to the end of their schooling, but serves the school community well beyond that. It is still to clear if there is a plan that can deliver those plans in a viable way.

It will become clear in the next month. At the moment, we just don't know.

How do we know RGS are working on other options for sure? This is why we raised funds for our legal representative.

Sorry but DV wouldn't be saying or doing anything without representatives. ND is in place for a very good reason.

Thanks for your apology CW above.

I think that the DV spokespersons statement in the press was spot on. DV can't imagine that the Governors have a better plan because, what is at the heart of all this is, they don't want a better plan - they just want to close Dunottar for the benefit of RGS. The challenge was - if they do have a better plan then let's hear it and stop messing around with all our daughters schooling.

GoGirl " they don't want a better plan - they just want to close Dunottar for the benefit of RGS"
I'm sorry - but I really don't believe this is true.

What I think IS true is that the governors simply didn't feel that RGS could/ should underwrite the huge losses which would occur if things kept ticking over/ declining in the same way as before.
If, as has been suggested, when the numbers were in for the next school year, Dunottar looked to have a shortfall of at least 20 pupils to break even, then that's a huge amount, say £250k+ to have to find from RGS.
Everyone seems to think RGS is this huge affluent posh school, but in reality it isn't really. It's careful with its spending and actually runs quite a 'tight ship'. I've heard it is paying off some of its own debts, related to the buildings and improvements it has made.
Hence the decision to declare a consultation period - and it is exactly that - a period to consult and explore all options, which both DV and the governors are doing.

Let's see what comes out of the process before we 'doubt the governors have anything better' - we may be surprised. If the governors come back with an alternative co-ed plan however that will prove interesting.

here here Gogirl1! Yes RGS want to benefit thats so obvious. From day one !

."Lets see what comes out of the process before we doubt the governors have anything better" . Better? Cant wait……. "We may be surprised" I think NikkiSurrey we have had enough surprises.

I'm done on here. Good luck everyone.

www.surreymirror.co.uk/External-private-school-operators-Reigate-s/story-20566813-detail/story.html

Don't know if you have seen this story with statement from chair of governors, with details of pupil numbers and financial losses. Helps explain the whole situation a bit more.

With regard to the latest Surrey Mirror piece it's worth pointing out that Walker's £180,000 loss for the year to 31 August 2013 almost certainly includes substantial one-off redundancy and other closure costs relating to the decision to close the Junior School in that year.

Secondly, the accounts for the previous year which include the supposedly failing Junior School showed a loss of less than £7,000.

Obviously Dunottar has some financial problems but for me there's a huge question mark over the extent of the problem.

The school has been making losses since 2009, last year showed a 7k loss but the year previous to that was a loss of £112k. That's a large loss to try and recover from with falling pupil numbers.

Don't know if this is right, but today I heard that once the Year 11 and 13s go at the end of the exam season, the school will be down to less than 50 pupils. Is that really true? So small?
If that is correct, as it stands it is clearly not viable. If it attracts a take over from UL, it either will make significant losses in the early years with those kind of numbers, or if it attracts enough new pupils to make it viable, it really will be a totally new school and the remaining girls will become the remnant, or rump. If these numbers are wrong, which I assume is the case (or have the numbers leaving been that big?) then I think the UL proposal is even more suspect. The school will need major, major bankrolling for a number of years to get to the point of viable numbers,if ever they can (the thing RGS weren't willing to do....and why should they) UL is a profit making organisation, not a charity there to help out poor struggling schools from the goodness of its heart. I should think the prospect of them having an eye on making it a state academy a couple of years down the line is very likely. I should think that the Governors will be asking lots of questions requiring very precise answers to pin them down about that. That takes some time. I think it is absolutely right that this UL thing is fully, fully investigated, along with all other options.

Just wondered what Dunottar parents and the public in general feel about this. Would you prefer it to stay open if it were to become a state academy in a couple of years or to close? People have mentioned the growing pressure on state school places in Surrey, so I can see the Council might be interested. Again,mould be a very different school.

Those numbers don't sound right. If you assume circa 200 in the school at start of consultation, yes a few girls have left or planning to leave outside of yrs 11 and 13, but bearing in mind y13 is probably quite small (last yr it was less than 10 I think) then that would mean yr 11 would be over 100 at the moment, I don't think it's that big. You are also assuming that none of the yr 11 would stay in yr12 if it available.

50 pupils? Choc? Now where on earth did that number come from? That is just nuts... and now you are going to ask me for the most recent audited numbers, no doubt, and I do not have them! I assure you it ain't 50... it ain't even as low as 100. Wow. If you don't want to say on here, feel free to DM me with your source or the root of this assertion because it beggars belief.

Anyhoo. "UL is a profit making organisation, not a charity there to help out poor struggling schools from the goodness of its heart." = Wrong It is a charity... the President of its board of Trustees is Lord Carey (ex-archbishop). Why do you think it was some corporate monster? Why tell others it is when it isn't?

You say you are dispassionate observer just offering thoughts to help others get perspective. And I think people who do that are great. And yet this. I'd like to understand.

UL may be a group of limited Co's but they are a charity so they can only use profits for the benefit of the trust.
I think there is some confusion as some Co's that do run academies aren't set up as charities and they are profit making.
There has also been some concerns about transparency of how funds move from local authorities to academies. There a few articles out there but I can't be bothered to link to them, easy to google though.

Apologies if the number was wrong. I did ask about it rather than assert it as fact. The person I spoke to close connections with Dunottar staff and is actually a supporter of Dunottar and usually very accurate with their information about any topics we discuss. I did wonder.
I won't ask you for current numbers (hers weren't current numbers anyway, but figures for after the current year 11 and 13 leave at the end of the exam system, leaving behind the Year 7,8,9,10 and 12s)
Again, Im sorry if I have not fully understood the nature of UL. I still hold to the point though, that it is very important to know how long their commitment to maintaining Dunottar as an independent school is. They may have to use profits for the benefit of the trust, but what stops the trust becoming an academy, if UL deem that a better use of the resources?

I can see this has upset you Tired and I don't want to do that. Where would you suggest I ask about anything else of this nature I hear? There is all kinds of stuff flying about. Often it's clear it is rubbish, but not always. Glad to hear the numbers are much healthier.

Lord Carey has actually retired as a board member now and UL changed it's status from a registered charity to an exempt charity in 2012. It's in their last reported financial accounts.

Chocolatewombat: 'Where would you suggest I ask about anything else of this nature I hear? There is all kinds of stuff flying about. Often it's clear it is rubbish, but not always.' Yes, you're quite right, it's rubbish. Spreading rumours like you did (above) about numbers for September verges on malicious gossip. Why not keep the gossip to yourself and just watch official sources for news updates?