Dunottar/ Reigate Grammar - Merger, or what?

[quandry]

Got the letter today, and I have to say I don't really understand what is going on?
Is RGS bailing out Dunottar to save it going under?
I can't see the advantages for RGS at all?

Someone suggested that perhaps they'd make it co-ed, less academic school in the future (like a Box Hill in Reigate?) and share facilities more? (Sports fields closer than Hartswood?)

Gosh, DorkingMum, I've certainly not seen the communication from DV in the same light you have... and I know a lot of DV people have children at both schools, indeed some have daughters at the two different schools and really appreciate the two different approaches for getting the best out of a specific child. What I have heard is a call for choice, and that must be a good thing for us all.
Yes, some individuals have been mean, emotional, sharp. Under stress we all can be. In my experience this is not a fair reflection of the Dunottar community in general, the DV team or the wonderful teaching staff.
Anyway, sorry to hear this has affected you - and coloured your view of a great school - so badly. I'm sure DV people will be sad about that too.

elsma, I'm afraid I agree with DorkingMum, there does seem to be a lot of RGS bashing going on in all the DV communications and a particularly unpleasant and mostly inaccurate post by an individual poster up thread. This really does the DV campaign no favours at all. I really think that DV needs to look more closely at the problems with in Dunottar itself rather than looking to blame RGS for all its problems. RGS is an amazing school, with outstanding pastoral care, outstanding teachers and moving my daughter away from the bullying at Dunottar to RGS was one of the best things I have ever done. Perhaps DV should look to the good things at RGS and try to learn from them rather than bashing them. As I have said in my previous posts, I really do feel for the girls, their families and teachers at Dunottar. I understand that it is a really stressful and emotional time, but lashing out at RGS is putting Dunottar in a very negative light in the outside community.

Please can we call a truce?

Well said, LJElphick. Boo97: I know who you are. I know the year 9 students who left D to go to RGS and none of them were bullied. I know you have an axe to grind and you're using this as a forum by pretending to be a year 9 parent. I'm sorry your daughter (and I know which year group she's really in) wasn't happy at D. I can imagine the parents of D girls who are being bullied by RGS students on the buses everyday are also unhappy. It's an emotional time for everyone at the moment and I think everyone should take a step back, take a deep breath and focus on the facts rather than using this forum as a place to air hidden agendas.

wills, I'm not sure personal attacks are going to further the cause of DV nor are in the spirit of a truce.

fwiw dc was bullied in another school but I doubt any of the parents, or even many of the staff, would have been aware. In other circumstances it may well not have even been considered as bullying behaviour but the effect was the same.

"Please can we call a truce?"

Only if these wretched DV people stop littering our streets and inboxes with their obnoxious propaganda. A friend of mine in Reigate came home yesterday to find a copy of the 'open letter' shoved through her letterbox!
Like me, she is disgusted by their whole approach. Well, ya boo to them, as she is withdrawing her Year 8 daughter as she says she just doesn't want to be any part of it.

There is a real risk that an overly enthusiastic and aggressive campaign could back fire, alienating prospective parents, staff , supporters and investors. Perhaps the DV coordinators need to take an overview and rein it back a bit, at least until there is a positive and cohesive proposal on the table.

We must remember that there are two sides to every story and as we live in a free world each side is entitled to free speech.

Maybe the DV group are being over zealous with their campgain but it shows spirit and determination.

It would also be good to hear what RGS has done to help Dunottar over the past year and their thoughts on what their plan is for the Dunottar sight should the school close.

I would also like to correct the fact that one of the posters has said that the kids get automatic entry from RSM to RGS this already happens at Caterham and Lingfield Notre Dame. The kids might take the exam but those in yr6 are assured of a place in the senior school.

With regards to the coaching maybe a less pressurised co-ed in this area would be a good idea instead of the pressured RGS/Caterham "all we want is to be is top of the league tables".

I must also point out that Dunottar is not and has never been the same sized school as RGS and I would guess ideally they need 280 pupils to be in a good position. That said and having the junior school closed and subsequent drop in numbers a 5 yr plan to bring the numbers back up should have been implemented when RGS came to help Dunottar not a 1yr plan as it has turned out.

As I have said in my previous posts Dunottar have always been in a good financial position without debt. Those doubters should have a look at the charities commission website and you will see that RGS and Caterham both have large bankloans which are noted in their accounts.

I do hope a solution can be found and with the increase in housing in the east surrey area we must keep as many schools open as possible.

I mean site

Good comment lostinsurrey. All we are saying on here really is we feel more support from RGS. Parents are worried sick, children are so upset that friends are going everyone put yourselves in their shoes. Your right, we have no debts. Fact. Other schools do as you rightly suggest. Rumours will circulate quick. Our first wave of girls leaving was a rumour supposedly telling everyone to get out quick. People will panic,people will stay. Please all I ask if you work in a school please remember the confidentiality agreement. Feel sorry for parents with one child at each school. Dunottar is one special school and is so different from their neighbour. Please think of the children and not yourselves.

Sorry dorking mum. No one is trying to twist the facts. It's really simple. D came to RGS for help. No much was evident. Our action group is marvellous and shows great spirit. Contributions are flowing in. A lot of people on here have been at D a long time ....and it shows. Regardless of the comments, yes some are negative, that's life! What will be will be but we are not giving up yet. ! Sorry. By the way the comment which says do the parents know what's going on at Boxhill, the old Head just left, nothing sinister . We need another coed in Reigate. Fact. !

I also would like to correct an earlier post, I actually have a child at RSM currently and you are not guaranteed an automatic place at RGS.

I'm afraid anyone who needs to resort to saying "Fact" to prove their point has long since lost the intellectual debate in my mind.

I too hope that RGS come forward to defend themselves in due course (not that they need to), but meanwhile I think their dignified silence is probably serving them well, as it is in sharp contrast with the shrill DV propaganda machine which is rapidly causing itself more harm than good in the Reigate community.

I have no doubt that the DV team will cherry pick the results of their questionnaire to suit their proposals. Interesting too that few, if any, of the DV team are willing to be publicly identified - the press reports are all "John, who didn't give his surname" etc.

It's all very sad, and as someone else said, not a great example to be setting for our children.

I would also like to clarify if you have a child in Yr 6 at Lingfield Notre Dame or Caterham your child has a place in the Senior School. The Yr6 pupils take the exam but have a place where as at RSM not all the Yr6 pupils have automatic entry without having to take the 11+. I guess that there is probably some movement of pupils out of the schools in LND and Caterham before Yr6 so that they all the remaining pupils continue at the school. Some yr6's may still go elsewhere. I gather that this is now common across most independents schools with a Junior school.

Dignified silence of RGS or worried silence not sure which. Hope it is dignified!

Here here lostinsurrey. Hope it is dignified too. Gosh Dorking mum sorry but the truth is there. We have no debt. Interesting when you look at the destinations of the year 6s at RSM quite a lot move around and don't actually go to RGS. Wonder why….Probably all gone to Caterham !
I agree I think we are all waiting for RGS to speak out a bit more. Gone all quiet if you ask me! Stop having a dig at our DV team. We aren't going away yet! Come on Dunottar!

By the way I don't blame people who do not give their full name dorking mum, after all, you have a nickname on here too , so your doing the same!

Why does RGS have to come forward to defend itself?? Surely there is nothing to defend, it is not a battle between the two schools, I don't understand why people are trying to make out that it is.

I was watching Dragons Den last night. I wondered if the Dragons were given a chance to invest in Dunottar if they would. They only go for things which look properly viable.

What would they ask those seeking investment?

What are your current numbers. ? (When given numbers from 2010 or 6 months ago, they would say 'No, I want your current numbers'
What are your projections and what are they based on. (The Dragons often say, 'oh you've carried out a survey. But how many actual orders do you have ?)
What actually is Dunottar? We know it s well loved school, but will it be girls, mixed, mixed in 6th form or what? Because we can't invest if we don't know what Dunottar will actually be.

They might also ask about longer term trends with numbers.
I don't think they would be interested in a debate which is running between some people who want to blame another business and those defending it, all they would be interested in is Dunottar.

Does this help to clarify the key issues? Maybe not, but I thought it might for some people.

Luckypup22 I think but tell me if I am wrong that you are missing the point. RGS and Dunottar share Governors and RGS Group of Schools was supposed to be helping Dunottar and we have yet to see any evidence of that help.

Again I re-iterate my point that there are two sides to this but am yet to hear what RGS have done. Hope to be surprised!

If my memory serves right … think it may have something to do with the RGS governors. Yes thats it….

Last year when D asked for help, they signed themselves over to be part of the RGS Group, so all 3 schools come under the umbrella that is RGS, the governors of the group have decided that D is not viable, I'm sure this was not taken as a snap decision. A consultation period is a statutory requirement that has to be put in place preceding the closure of a school, it is merely a formality. I'm sure that RGS will comment at the end of the consultation period, but as I said they have nothing to defend.

Going on about Dunottar not having any debt is irrelevant. A business may have no debt but no prospects either, and many successful businesses have huge debts but a solid, viable plan to pay them off, via promising sales data - that's what Wombat is saying.

I think there's a big difference between being quoted as a press spokesperson for the school but wishing to remain anonymous, and posting on a web forum?

I have no interest in making it a battle between two schools, because it clearly isn't. But some posters on here don't seem to understand that, and think the only way to 'win' is to throw mud across the fence at another school. Very petty.
In reality this 'competition' between the schools only exists in the minds of mums with too much time on their hands - not between the children, many of whom are friends, siblings and neighbours. I may be a RGS parent, but I went to a Caterham school show last week, and would be the first to say that it was fantastic. Our Caterham neighbour likes to come to RGS music productions because she says they are 'West End quality'.

I see that DV have now posted an update with a list of what they're doing currently. As a former 'prospective parent' I will fill in their questionnaire to share my views - and I'd encourage everyone, supporter or dissenter to do the same

Thank you lostinsurrey. They still don't get it! Could you imagine the shoe on the other foot! Lol. Yes dorking mum too much time on their hands! Can't wait to here what RGS say..no doubt more surprises! Lol. I'm right with you lostinsurrey! Just listened again to radio susy such a great interview. Still we did gain one thing ...shared coach runs wow...that saves the day then!

But Dunottar didn't just gain shared coach runs. If what Dunottar voice says is true the RGS trustees gave a letter of comfort to the auditors of the Dunottar accounts. This would underwrite any shortfall that Dunottar made in the next financial year. As it turns out they didn't have a shortfall but what if they had done, the RGS trustees would have had to pay out. It doesn't matter whether they had to pay out or not. The Dunottar trustees effectively bought an insurance policy from the RGS trustees. It's like buying a life assurance policy that will pay out if you die in the next five years, you don't die, the policy doesn't pay out, you don't get your money back. No actual money may have changed hands during the transaction but the RGS trustees took the risk nevertheless.
So I don't think it's accurate to say Dunottar didn't get anything, if the RGS trustees hadn't given the letter of comfort what would have happened to Dunottar?

I think the survey is a good idea but needs opening out to parents who decided that Dunottar wasn't for them, there needs to be an understanding of what the individuals were looking for that they didn't think Dunottar could give them.