Dunottar/ Reigate Grammar - Merger, or what?

[quandry]

Got the letter today, and I have to say I don't really understand what is going on?
Is RGS bailing out Dunottar to save it going under?
I can't see the advantages for RGS at all?

Someone suggested that perhaps they'd make it co-ed, less academic school in the future (like a Box Hill in Reigate?) and share facilities more? (Sports fields closer than Hartswood?)

Yes, but the policy provider terminated the policy too soon.
I rest my case

Thanks, DorkingMum, promoting the survey is an excellent suggestion. If prospective parents say that one option or another will encourage them. Or that the school is never going to be for them. Or whatever. There is some solid data to build a plan from.
There links on the www.dunottarvoice.com website.

Did they though? according to the open letter on Dunottar voice the letter of comfort provided the guarantee for the following year and it was agreed that the trustees could close school regardless of whether it was in financial difficulties, so it looks like they didn't terminate the "policy" early, they give the guarantee for the year. I appreciate that Dunottar voice may be privy to information that hasn't been made public so the situation may be different to what is being presented but in that case surely it would be better to provide the whole picture or none at all.

The formation of a formidable legal team would not be taken lightly. The case would not even be take unless there was a high chance of success.

Maybe not, but in my experience it's usually lawyers who benefit most from these situations unless they are on a no win no fee basis!

This is interesting information. I understand the RGS involvement more now.
They made a limited time frame guarantee, but it sounds like nothing else. (If Im wrong about this and RGS made other specific promises, I'd be interested to know what they were, from someone with more information) I wonder if everyone was made aware of the limited nature of help that was offered. This supports what I have thought all along, which is that the Head at Dunottar was buying time. She didn't really expect the school to be saved long term by the merger, but to gain a year or so, for the staff and pupils. Perhaps the very limited nature of the help offered wasn't made clear to the parents or staff and they thought RGS were offering to do whatever was needed to get them up and running well again.....which might not be possible, whatever is done. Lots of people on here have been very angry about what they have seen as the lack of help from RGS, but thinking about it, no one has ever given any actual examples of what they had said they would do, that they then didn't.
Did parents and others object to the idea of the merger at the time? Because complaining now seems a bit too late. Dunottar approached RGS not the other way round. RGS made them an offer and Dunottar accepted it. Don't think it was a foolish decision on the part of Dunottar who sound like they were being pragmatic and trying to achieve the least bad scenario.......but problematic if not fully explained, though I can see it would be difficult to explain to parents and staff and maintain morale.

So does it sound like the bottom line is that RGS provided the year long guarantee to the auditors, which was enough to keep the school open. During that time, there was not a significant enough improvement in numbers (which everyone truly on the inside expected to be the case) so likely closure was announced. Of course, then numbers fell even more and the numbers who will be willing to take the big risk required, to send their children to a school in this position, possibly carrying on in a new untested format, , are unknown. People pledge support for Dunottar,But it's not the same as taking that risk with their childrens education and signing up and paying the big cheque.

Posters, if you were not part of Dunottar already (and I know some of you are and some of you aren't) would you take that risk? It needs a lot of people not to just say they will, but to do it for dunottar to continue. Perhaps I am wrong and there are lots of people out there, who would choose that over the alternatives?? I actually would like Dunottar to be able to continue as a girls school, because I think having choices is good. However, I realise that whatvI would like and what is viable are not then are thing.

Sorry about typos. At the end, I meant 'not the same thing'.

Any legal case isn't going to change the immediate future though. And it is very likely from what is in the public domain,that there won't be a "case" at all. It isn't as if the trustees themselves are gaining financially from any arrangement, nor do they appear to have overstepped their legal powers in any way. They may not have adopted the best course of action in order to secure the future operation of the school, but it will be interesting to see which laws have been broken. it is not in itself illegal to be unsuccessful in business.

What is of more concern legally is the precise legal constitution of Dunottar Voice, or whoever the recipient of the £21k fund is? In whose name is a bank account being opened, and to whom are they accountable? The trustees of either Dunottar or RGS are not remunerated and act in a voluntary basis, and the terms under which they can claim expenses are tightly governed, to say nothing of their requirements to publish accounts etc. Who are the trustees of Dunottar Voice?

Let me start by saying that I think Dunottar is a fabulous school that provides excellent education for its girls and inspires a wonderful loyalty to the school. They have fabulous results, value added, Uni destinations, music, art, charity fundraising, pastoral care etc etc . It is hard to find anything at all about Dunottar that is not excellent apart from the number of families who are willing to send their daughters to the school. I hope that the school survives and thrives as I think 85 years of Girls only education should not end like this nor be allowed to just drift into being another of the many coed schools around. it is an excellent Girls School.

I mean that but even so, it doesn't mean that we should allow the really understandable campaigning emotion cloud the issue and somehow blame RGS for the problems of low numbers.

From the letter sent today:
The Dunottar Headteacher and Trustees had allowed the school to get to a position where they felt they desperately needed help. This is the fundamental problem.

The prep had 5 or 6 girls in some year group.

Without RGS support, apparently there would have been a closure with little notice and no provision for girls half way through their exams if Dunottar had not found a partner to underwrite it.
I think the need for a quick closure is disputed but it must have been somewhere near this level of desperation for Dunottar Governors to have approached RGS to become controlled by RGS Governors in the first place!

Remember at the time of the announcement last year, Dunottar insisted on being left as a separate school. There was no appetite from any announcements at Dunottar to be seen as 'taken over', they clearly positioned themselves as wanting the chance to be a stand alone girls school. That is what happened.

I have never read any promise from RGS Governors to save or prop up Dunottar. Mr Walters said at Prize Giving that numbers needed to improve or the school would not be viable. He was criticised for it but he should not be blamed for making false promises. It may be a shock that Dunottar numbers are so low but it should not be a shock that RGS Governors were merely giving Dunottar one more year, one more recruitment round to recover its fortunes. That was said repeatedly.

Apparently this year saw registrations / girls taking the exam increase by 2 girls from last year. Last years registrations of 47 saw 17 or 18 join the school. According to the RGS e mail today, usually less than 50% of those taking the exam accept a place. So, an increase of 2 registrations to 49 would logically lead to 18 or 19 in a year group if 47 taking the exam resulted in 17 or 18 girls joining. That is just continuing a trend that was in place before Dunottar asked RGS to take over the Governance.

RGS Governors were never asked to 'save Dunottar'. It was clear that the RGS involvement would lead to some breathing space, some new Governors, some new ideas, some minor collaboration like over buses and sports facilities etc. Despite the emotion, it may be that the new Governors are making the difficult but necessary decisions.

Dunottar is an excellent school but RGS Governors are being blamed when it is not their fault that the school that had already been allowed to get so small that it may have been too far gone.

chocolate, I've only gleaned that information from the Dunottar voice open letter, there could be more info that we aren't seeing so I don't know what or wasn't promised by the RGS trustees.

As to whether I would choose Dunottar, I didn't a few years ago. I didn't think it was the right school for my daughter and even then I thought it was too small. That said I can see why it is the right school for others but it would take a fairly large leap of faith to sign up to it now. I think if a business plan can be agreed by the trustees then that makes it a safer bet. I don't think anyone can make a decision until then, certainly parents of existing pupils at Dunottar are looking at alternative places in case it shuts. I hope it survives, it's good to have choice!

Redillredneck, thank you for that post. The numbers you mention are the kind of thing we all need to know to start to get the full picture.
I realise the DV job is to try to save the school. I admire the hours people must be putting into this. However, if they don't give a full picture of the situation in the past and over the last year and now, they don't really the people who are struggling in this, which is the girls and their parents and the staff too. Those people with most at stake need to know how bad things had got. They need to know what was and wasn't promised. If the end result is closure, they need to be able to walk away from it, knowing the truth behind it all. I'm not sure exactly who stands to gain from focusing blame on RGS....but I don't think it is the parents and girls.

ladymuck there is a limited Co, Dunottar Voice Limited with three named directors, publicly available information from Companies House.

All that RGS provided was..... Sorry cant think of anything. Dunottar people stick together . Ignore all this why, what, if, but. It will always be Dunottar School no matter what. Remember your child is not just a number at Dunottar. Keep strong my friends!

What RGS provided for Dunottar was a lifeline for a year by underwriting any shortfall. What would have happened to Dunottar if that guarantee hadn't been provided? No one seems to be able to answer that question?

There was no shortfall. Not sure people on here realise how long we have to wait before D day and what parents , children, teachers , office staff, cleaners, caterers, dance teachers, flipper club , caretakers are going through. Oh and of course the Governors. It affects everyone.

At the start of last year Dunottar parents were informed that it was proposed that Dunottar become part of the RGS group of schools but with a separate board of trustees . The proposal had to be backed by parents and staff and a short "consultation" period ensued. Remember "part of the RGS group of schools" it is even signed on the side of the new mini bus lent to Dunottar. Part of the RGS group of schools in the same way that RSM is part of the group. This gave parents, staff and the girls confidence in the proposal. Never ever was it said that the arrangement was for a year. If all were told of the time frame then there would not be the outcry that there is now which has have motivated so many people.

I'd certainly not want to be in the position that you and others find yourselves all those affected certainly have my sympathy. The closest I've come is being made redundant and it's horrible as it impacts the whole family and your plans for the future.

My point about the guarantee isn't whether there ended up being a shortfall, it's that the Dunottar trustees effectively purchased an insurance policy in case there was a shortfall. They didn't pay over a premium in cash terms but appear to have signed over the control of the schools assets if the articles were changed in the way it's stated in the open letter, that appears to be the premium they paid. Whether that was a reasonable premium is another matter, I guess that was a matter for the trustees to decide.

I hope the school has a future whether that is as a girls school or co-ed.

Sheldsonswhiteboard
To answer your question, if RGS hasn't stepped in to help when D requested then D would of have to close down abruptly in July 2013. This information was in a letter to RGS and RSM families from the chairman of governors.

Hold on here.

From what everyone is saying RGS last year said that they were undertaking to underwriting D for ONE year.
What did they hope to do within that year? Offers were out to entrants for 2013 and even in the uncertain times that surrounded the underwriting there was still 20% uptake. (and there was VERY limited information in the public of what RGS/D collaborating meant)
Not sure how D was supposed to 'up' the numbers anymore from Sept 2013 - Jan 2014.

As an educational establishment who has the purpose of 'ensuring provision for children in and around the Reigate area' surely they would know that it would take more than 11 months to turn the numbers in a school around.

As RGS are such a highly esteemed establishment within Reigate, the pure fact that they were backing D would have meant that there would have been a higher number of uptake for 2014 entry, as there was more confidence in D with RGS backing.

Much of the confidence was from the chair of governors at the intial 'collaboration' about shared purchasing power, and much more than coaches were mentioned. The meeting that RGS/RSM held talked about shared office personnel, catering, stationary ordering, and other economies of scale. The only thing that is visable and has happened is the coaches. D apparently gave a long list the RGS which included all the office staff at D being made redundant. This was rejected by RGS

However, it seems that the collaboration was not meant to be. RGS felt they were unable to underwrite D anymore.

As everyone keeps saying, an Independent School is a business. Therefore surely as a business, when you agree to underwrite something that you are putting your name to, you would actually have a 5 year plan to ensure that your reputation is not tarnished. In education there is ONE point in each year that you can prove your numbers - SEPTEMBER.

I do not have children at the school. In fact I have children in the RGS/RSM group.

I still look it at it objectively and wonder why RGS wanted to take this on if they were only going to support for less than 12 months. It makes no business sense whatsoever.

From the outside, it would appear that neither school is coming out of this well, but it is certainly keeping Reigate alive with gossip and detracting from all the other changes that are going on with other schools in the area!

legaleagle - was it really just for 1 year?

Last February there was no mention of one year at any meeting or in any documentation to RSM/RGS parents.

Luckypup ... is there proof that D would have closed in July 2013? Where is this available for us all to see? Just interested. thanks.

Does anyone have a transcript of "that speech" made at Dunottar's prize giving last year? It will be needed.

As I said it was in a letter issued to RGS and RSM parents from Alan Walker, gov chairman on 15 th jan, along with explaining that D was going into a consultation period. I dint have evidence, just the letter as I am a parent to children in both schools.

I'm only getting the one year time period from the Dunottar voice open letter that states that the comfort letter was provided for any shortfall in the following year." I would agree that a business plan for a school would need more than 1 year to be executed, maybe they thought that after the school became part of the RGS group that any further comfort letters wouldn't be needed due to there being more confidence in the future of the school and hopefully pupil numbers increasing.