Is everybody happy with their choice of a NON-selective secondary education over a selective one?

[AdventuresWithVoles]

Genuine question.

Yes we do

Common entrance? I'm now seriously baffled. Why are you including independent schools in the discussion? There are obviously some children in our town who go from state primary to private secondary (none for our school this year) but I don't think there are usually enough to make a stwstical difference. is it different where you are?

I meant partially selective state schools.

Speaker, nobody is denying your experience. What I am denying is your complete and unwavering insistence that your experience is everyone's experience. And I am getting very hacked off with your insistence that my SS is a goat. He is not a goat. I'm sorry that you think your DS is, but that's your issue not mine. My DS is not a goat.

"Bog-standard" is used commonly now after Alistair Campbell used it to refer to comprehensives in 2001, and offended a lot of people. It's certainly a phrase.

No, I'm not saying that my experience is everyone's experience. What I am saying is that if the "bring back grammar schools" brigade get their way, it will be a much more common experience. The way our town is divided is, I think, quite unusual, but I think it is a model of how it used to be in the days when everyone took the 11+.
And I'm sorry if the "sheep and goats" analogy bothers people- I'll stop using it. It was just a convenient shorthand- not intended to be a value judgement. I did consider "turning left or right when you get on a plane" but decided against......!

Seeker - But its not even your 'experiences'.

You talk about how secondary modern kids are being failed by their schools but you've subsequently gone on about how well your DC is doing and how he is thriving at his secondary modern.

You talk about how people in your small town treat those kids who go to the secondary modern as failures. You then qualify this by saying that hasn't happened to your family.

It is increasingly sounding as if you are talking about the experiences of a handful of people that don't include you and projecting onto the wider group.

Well, I can't have talked about how well my ds is doing at a secondary modern school because he hasn't started yet.

I observe the town. I observe the to groups of kids meeting in Tesco. I observe how the year 6 classes react and divide after the results come out.

I don't think I said that the High school kids are labelled failures. I am saying that if you have system which sets a test that only 23% of children pass, and then put those 23% in a separate school, it is impossible for the impression not be given that that is a "better" school. Even if it isn't. And that if children who pass are congratulated and children who don't are commiserated with, then this reinforces this attitude. And it doesn't matter how much you say that the test is "to decide which is the best school for you", if it is a test with a pass mark and kids know they haven't scored the pass mark, how are you possibly going to stop them thinking at some level that they haven't made the grade? Because that is human nature.

And I repeat, I know that most towns are not like ours. But the side effect of more grammar schools would be more towns like ours.

This is quickly turning into a rehash of other threads. The sun is briefly shining so I'm off. Adios.

Which is what you always do when you can no longer misquote and misrepresent what others say.

Quite agree with poshtoon on that aspect. Many feel that moving home is not playing the system when those who live in social housing don't have that privilege. Many of the high performing primary schools in our area have a catchment area where the houses start at £500K. Even for secondary, I've known of Mums who've moved a year in advance to the catchment of their chosen school so as not to arouse suspicion. It's like a 'legal lie' as you wouldn't have lived in the area otherwise. I'm not knocking it either, because everyone at the end of the day is just trying to do the best for their kids, it's just being aware of ones actions.

seeker - I stand corrected. You were actually talking effusively about the secondary modern your son is going to go to in September

But my point remains. You are obviously happy with your school. Yet you like to have everyone believe the concensus is that every child that goes there feels a failure.

@EDU - A guy at work is quite proud of his socialist principles. He is against private education because rich people shouldn't be allowed to buy a better education for their children.

So when his kids were nearing school age he sold up his Islington flat and bought a £750,000 house near a highly ranked state school in Surrey. Yup, you wouldn't catch him using his money to buy a better education for his kids eh? :o

There is a big difference between saying (as I suspect I did- I don't have your memory) that my child, who is very bright and very well supported will do well, and talking effusively about the school ( which I suspect I didn't).

Ah, that well-known 'all middle class state school advocates just move into the vicinity of a leafy comp'...

...quite a lot of us don't, you know. The school DD1 is going to go to would doubtless scandalise many MNers. I stand by my view that she'll be fine and do fine (and no, that isn't because I have appallingly low standards either. Am perfectly well-educated with degrees and everything).

seeker - Does your son consider himself to be a failure for not getting into GS? Has anyone made condescending remarks to you or your son that has made him feel like he is a failure?

I know what the answer is from your previous posts but I just want to hear you say it here in this thread, just so I don't get accused of mis quoting you.

mother - your school would scandalise us? You mean some of the parents don't change their cars every three years? :)

If the school is crap but you won't move your kids out of principle then you are a fool.

Surely most of the country doesn't have the choice of selective education?
I deliberately moved into an area with no selective schools-it wasn't difficult, most grammar schools went in the 1970s (thankfully)

He is very disappointed - he wanted to go to school with his close friends. His confidence took a knock. And it was difficult for him for a week or two until everyone we know had heard the news, because everyone assumed that he would pass. And one or two kids inn his year tried to make q big deal out of it.

But as I said, he is very bright, has plenty of self confidence and is very well supported. And the High School football team is better.

Why do you what to make this about my ds? My views have not changed since I first became aware of how education works in Kent generally and in our town specifically. If you are trying to imply that I would not be posting in this way if my ds had passed, then you are very much mistaken.

I didn't say it was crap. I said it would scandalise some of you, because its results - while good and improving - are less than superlative, and the girls roll their skirts up and tend to experiment with hair dye.

I like the sound of that school, MI.:) I'll bear it in mind for when my only eligible baby gets to secondary age.

Though first things first, better get her into a primary first!

Why am I making it about your DS? Well, you keep saying that you are basing your opinions on YOUR experiences of secondary schools. And then you post about how you wasn't talking about your family when you said that people in your small town were looking down on the kids who go to the SM.

Also the only one of my children who really loves experimenting with hair dye, make up and jewellery is not the female one...

Also the head is all dynamic and fabulous and feminist.