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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Shirley high croydon

56 replies

alisonmb7 · 30/04/2012 19:14

Hi, I was wondering if anyone can tell me what the entrance exam to Shirley high is like? And how competitive it is? Is it a series of exam papers... Verbal reasoning etc? My daughter is pretty bright, but hard to say really where she is on a national level.

I'm not massively keen on force feeding exams, I remember it from my youth, but am in that position that many people find themselves in where they want to do their best for their child.

I don't think I'm in the catchment for Shirley high and if get her in my son will follow automatically. Would she be happy in any other school? Probably, she's not inja great primary but she loves it, but I'm just looking for the big picture if anyone can supply it? Thank you!

OP posts:
downtomylastcigarette · 01/05/2012 10:51

I can't give you up to date information but my daughter sat it six years ago. She is reasonably bright but did not pass, so if it is very important to you to get in I would definitely do some practice at least and probably tutoring. Does Shirley definitely say you are not in their catchment? They seem to work it out differently to every other school in the borough, but I remember either they or the council were able to tell us that we definitely weren't in.

I was very keen on my daughter going to Shirley but by the time my son came up for secondary I'd gone off them a bit and didn't bother having him sit the exam. One of the things that put me off was them charging a tenner to sit their test, which I thought was a cheek. However, I had a fallback position for him, an OK school that I knew he would get into. The situation seems tighter in Croydon at the moment.

Caoimhe · 01/05/2012 13:45

I live in the catchment for Shirley High so my ds did not have to sit the test but other parents told me that is VR and NVR. Considering the traffic on exam day I would say it is pretty competitive.

Most of my neighbours' children go there and they all speak very highly of it. The headmaster is very impressive! You have nothing to lose by giving the exam a go.

Original poster
alisonmb7 · 01/05/2012 19:24

Hello, Thanks for getting back to me. We're in East Croydon / woodside / addiscombe border, very near Davidson Primary School. Do you know where the catchment extends to? I guess I can get in touch with the council to find out, but I imagine it only reaches part of the way through Addiscombe.

Maybe I need to get her practising some exams!

OP posts:
Caoimhe · 01/05/2012 20:52

Well children from near Ashburton have got in in the past but for an up to date idea you'd need to ask the school or the Council.

Secondary schooling in Croydon is pretty nightmarish due to the ridiculous number of faith schools.

AngelEyes46 · 01/05/2012 21:10

A friend of mine's niece sat the test this year and initially didn't get in. However, the school 'phoned her a few weeks ago to ask her if she wanted to go on the waiting list - she was at that point number 8. She decided to come off it as her 1st choice school was a school in Bromley (which she had been given). She had been tutored and is quite bright. She didn't pass the test for Riddlesdown though which is a very science based test. Shirley high is now an academy so admissions may change.

Original poster
alisonmb7 · 05/05/2012 07:51

Thanks for this. I may call the school and find out how far away you can live and still get in without exam or siblings. although we want to move to the area I'd rather do it after my daughter goes to secondary, partially because we live so close to the primary our 'commute' is fab and partly because I'd like to move because I like the house, not because it is next door to the school! So complicated. If anyone knows how far they are from the school and got in I'd be grateful to know!

OP posts:
Metabilis3 · 05/05/2012 09:50

@caoimhe I wouldn't describe it as a ridiculous number.

Caoimhe · 05/05/2012 11:36

Metabilis3, are you referring to the number of faith schools?

Well if you compare Croydon to its neighbours, Bromley and Sutton, the figures are very different:
Croydon - 21 state secondary schools - 7 faith schools (33%) - 2 CofE and 5 Catholic

Sutton - 15 state secondary schools - 2 faith schools (13%) - both Catholic

Bromley - 17 state secondary schools - 1 faith school (6%) - CofE

Metabilis3 · 05/05/2012 17:30

5 catholic? Coloma, St Mary's, Thomas Moore, St Joes and what? Surely Fisher is in Sutton? And Virgo Fidelis isn't in Croydon borough, nor is St Phil's.....

In my day lots of Bromley Catholics went to the Croydon schools. So effectively, you've got 5 schools (if it is 5) out of 37 which are catholic schools. Hardly ridiculous. Although a bloody sight better than where I live where there are NO catholic schools at all. None. :(

Caoimhe · 05/05/2012 22:25

Virgo Fidelis does fall under Croydon - have a look at the league tables.

I think lots of Bromley Catholics still go to Croydon schools (or at least to Coloma) or to Lewisham or Lambeth.

I'm sorry you don't have a Catholic school near you but I still think it is crazy that Croydon has so many.

downtomylastcigarette · 07/05/2012 20:29

Caoimhe is right - until recently Croydon had 5 Catholic schools, Coloma, VF, St Joe's, Thomas More and St Mary's. At least two of these are undersubscribed, and contain many non-Catholic children. In spite of this, the council thought it would be a good idea to hand over one of it's failing secular schools to Coloma to run as an academy. Coloma is a very good school, no argument, but the fact that they are very good at running a Catholic, academic, all girls school does not mean they are necessarily going to be great at running a difficult, rough, secular academy.

In addition, 2 other failing schools have been taken over by a faithy charity, Oasis.

So if you are not a fan of faith schools, the situation in Croydon has indeed become tighter for you.

AngelEyes46 · 07/05/2012 23:33

But Coloma doesn't select on ability?

sandyballs · 08/05/2012 07:36

I don't get why you think the faith schools make the Croydon situation worse.

SoupDragon · 09/05/2012 13:11

"I don't get why you think the faith schools make the Croydon situation worse."

Because if you aren't the right religion or committed your choice of schools is much smaller.

AngelEyes46 · 09/05/2012 19:41

But Soup - as downto has said at least 2 (possibly 3) of the RC schools in Croydon are undersubscribed. Of the 2 CE schools - both very popular but there is a clause where non religious are accepted. There are a lot of over subscribed schools in Croydon (where distance for example if the main criteria) and children who live in these particular affluent areas benefit.

SoupDragon · 10/05/2012 07:22

Well, St Mary's will be one of those "undersubscribed" schools. Mainly because it is not a good school. I imagine that is also true of the other. If you assume that people look for the best school for their child, the undersubscribed, failing ones are irrelevant.

I do not imagine that the one with the clause admitting the non-religious admits regardless of religion. Is it not just a small percentage? which I thought they had to accept.

Coloma only admits non-catholics if they do not fill their places with catholic girls. John Fisher is the same, being oversubscribed with Catholic boys.

Archbishop Tenisons admits 90% as church places (so that's just 10 or 11 non church).

St Andrews is complicated, using a points system whereby church commitment bumps you up the priority list. A local child with a sibling who attended one of their catchment schools would score 48 with up to 13 bonus points for religion (specifically C of E). How this works in practise wrt numbers of non C of E children I don't know.

So, that is 4 schools pretty much wiped off the list before you start, making competition for the n=secular schools more fierce. How does this not make the situation worse?

Metabilis3 · 10/05/2012 08:23

@soup it doesn't make the situation worse because if those 4 schools were back 'on the list' the kids who go to those 4 schools would be 'back in the fray'

Catholic girls in Croydon have ONE decent school to go to. Catholic boys have nothing - they either have to schlep out to Purley for Fisher (not easy from Waddon) or out to practically Norbury for St Joes (even worse).

SoupDragon · 10/05/2012 10:34

"Catholic girls in Croydon have ONE decent school to go to. Catholic boys have nothing - they either have to schlep out to Purley for Fisher (not easy from Waddon) or out to practically Norbury for St Joes (even worse)."

Er, no. Catholic girls and boys have the choice of all the secular schools plus the specific catholic ones.

Metabilis3 · 10/05/2012 10:50

Er no. Catholic girls have the choice of ONE decent school if their parents are going to keep the promises they made when they got married. I know many don't and some of us can't (there are no catholic secondary schools at all where I live) but that doesn't change the facts.

SoupDragon · 10/05/2012 10:53

Top performing state secular schools for Croydon last year, based on % gaining 5 A-C GCSES. Schools within a 5 mile radius of my postcode

  1. Wallington Boys (not Croydon)
  2. Wilsons (not Croydon)
  3. Wallington Girls (not Croydon)
  4. Coloma (catholic)
  5. St Philomenas (Catholic)
  6. Langley Park Boys (not Croydon)
  7. Langley Park Girls (not Croydon)
  8. Archbishop Tenisons (C of E)
  9. Hayes School (not Croydon)
  10. John Fisher (Catholic)
  11. Brit School
  12. Riddlesdown
  13. Woodcote
  14. Warlingham (not Croydon)

etc

So, the top 3 performing Croydon schools are ruled out for the vast majority of croydon children. If your child falls between Super Selective ability and ordinary, the school choice is made worse by the presence of faith schools.

SoupDragon · 10/05/2012 10:55

Do the catholic wedding vows insist upon sending your child going to a catholic school then?

Metabilis3 · 10/05/2012 10:57

@soup you are being deliberately disingenuous. The top schools are actually Trinity and Whitgift, one of which is attended by your DCs, and they are out of the reach of practically everyone.

SoupDragon · 10/05/2012 11:01

You will notice that I said state schools?

I am not being disingenuous at all.

SoupDragon · 10/05/2012 11:02

The fact that my children go to Trinity has no bearing on the fact that the state choice for Croydon for non-religeous children is made worse by the faith schools.

SoupDragon · 10/05/2012 11:03

Of course, being Catholic, you obviously wouldn't be able to see a problem with faith schools would you?