Shirley high croydon

[alisonmb7]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone can tell me what the entrance exam to Shirley high is like? And how competitive it is? Is it a series of exam papers... Verbal reasoning etc? My daughter is pretty bright, but hard to say really where she is on a national level.

I'm not massively keen on force feeding exams, I remember it from my youth, but am in that position that many people find themselves in where they want to do their best for their child.

I don't think I'm in the catchment for Shirley high and if get her in my son will follow automatically. Would she be happy in any other school? Probably, she's not inja great primary but she loves it, but I'm just looking for the big picture if anyone can supply it? Thank you!

You are indeed being disingenuous because you are pretending to have a concern for 'the vast majority' of croydon pupils which you do not in fact display in your own life. You are implicitly criticising the right of catholics (maybe poor catholics from Waddon, like I was) to get a good education for their children while at the same time taking advantage of your own ability to circumvent the system through the depth of your pockets. It is clear, when having the full facts, that you are just fine with schools which aren't open to the vast majority of Croydon pupils so long as they are open to your own DCs. It's only the Catholics you don't like.

@Soup unlike you I made it clear that I had a vested interest in the issue in my first post in this thread. You clearly have a problem with catholic schools, not with equal access.

We are talking about state schools. The presence of independent schools makes no impact on the choice of state schools available. The presence of faith schools does. As an aside, any child can apply for a place at the Whitgift schools and they offer generous bursaries and scholarships to less well off parents - not guaranteed but certainly not a complete barrier like faith.

I am not being disingenuous, I am stating facts. Of course, clearly you know my mind better than I do.

I have no problem with catholic schools, I have a problem with faith schools. Please don't make unfounded accusations.

Poor deprived catholics from Waddon have the choice to send their child to any state school they like. Poor deprived non catholics from Waddon do not. (and I use Catholic here because you did).

My children attend private schools because of the problems with admission criteria for Croydon state schools and I have never thought them anything other than bloody lucky to be able to do so.

"you are pretending to have a concern for 'the vast majority' of croydon pupils which you do not in fact display in your own life."

I completely object to this statement. I do have a concern for Croydon pupils using the state system because my children have friends whose education has been severely fucked up due to admissions problems and lack of choice and I have friends who have had to go through the hell of waiting to hear about places being allocated from waiting lists because of crap admissions criteria.

Perhaps you are unable to feel empathy for those in situations which do not affect you and perhaps you only worry about things that are a problem for you but I don't.

FWIW, private secondary was not a consideration until we looked at what was available locally and the lack of choice due to admissions criteria.

Soup - what was your issue with Riddlesdown (an oversubscribed school)? And, catholics do make a commitment that they will bring their children up in the catholic faith. The triage is often commented on - i.e. the church, the school and the family. I don't understand why a DC would want to go to a RC school when they don't practice the faith? The whole idea of going to a faith school is because of the common ethos.

God this thread is making me nervous. I live in Sanderstead and my children attend Ridgeway Primary (not a feeder for any secondary). We will never be able to afford private and chances are we will have to move in 2 years out of Sanderstead to somewhere more affordable (currently renting my parents house while we save for a deposit) - this will stump our chances of getting into Riddlesdown. I would like to move to Bromley as my eldest will be in Y5 by then and we can move dependant on secondary school. But I would have to move DS too and he struggles with school as it is. So do I stay in Croydon and chance the horror of the state schools? Or disrupt DS's education?

Arrrgggghhhh!

Oh wow, Angel, just noticed your post re Coloma not being selective! Well it is true that they don't have an exam.

However, curiously, the department of education figures show the academic profile on entry to be low attainers 2%, middle attainers 32% and high attainers 66% so they are obviously playing some sort of game with their admissions. Their free school meals figure is also only 3.5%.

Compare those figures to Shirley High School with low attainers at 16%, middle attainers at 51% and high attainers at 32% with a free school meals figure of 14.1%.

Coloma may be many things but it is certainly not a real comprehensive school. I wouldn't hold out much hope for the poor girl from Waddon getting in these days.

More interesting if you look at the comparison to the other RC schools in Croydon.
At a recent adjudication, an objection from a parent stated that the baptism timelines was unfair (disadvantaging those who couldn't get their DCs baptised - working abroad etc). The school argued that as Coloma was so oversubscribed - distance criteria would prevail and the more affluent family would move into the area. That was recognised as a valid point until the data was compared with the other RC schools in Croydon (FSM):

St Joseph?s RC (boys) 10.2
Thomas More 17.3
Virgo Fidelis (girls) 12.1
St Mary?s Catholic High 19.9
Coloma 3.5

Maybe Coloma does get the cream but I am still in full agreement with faith schools. I want my DCs to be educated in a RC environment. And as for independent schools - they are not open to everyone - I don't know anyone that has a full bursary/scholarship. We should be striving for all state schools (including faith) to be as good as independent.

"Maybe Coloma does get the cream" - fear not, as the figures show, they make sure they do.

Obviously if your priority is a Catholic education then you'd be perfectly happy to choose somewhere like St Mary's? Or do you agree with Metabilis that there is only one Catholic school for girls in Croydon and none for boys? Because you see that kind of statement makes others feel that it isn't the RC bit that is important, what people want is a lovely, middle class education for free and how lucky for them that they can play a religion card to get it. A free education paid for by all of us that most of us can't access.

Oh and by the way, just because you don't know anyone on a full scholarship or bursary doesn't mean they don't exist!!!!

@Caoimhe I said one decent. I don't think that St Mary's is decent now is it? And it wasn't decent when I was at school either but I would have gone there had I not got into Coloma. There or Thomas Moore. Those were the 3 schools my mum put on my transfer form or whatever they called it in those days. My issue for the boys was the travel, I was thinking about travelling from Waddon, where I grew up, and basing my considerations of faffness on the buses as they were then. But of course the bus routes have changed dramatically so maybe it's not an issue now to get from Waddon to St Joes or Fisher or Thomas Moore. And I was certainly not middle class when I was at school.

That's my point, Metabilis - if the RC bit is so critical then the "decent" bit doesn't come into it, surely? Otherwise it's just another version of "sharp elbows", i.e. using any advantage you can to get the very best for your child, whether that is buying a house in catchment or getting on your knees or paying.

I also went to Coloma although I was the last year to take the 11 plus. St Anne's was my parents 2nd choice (merged with Coloma when I was in year 9) and Thomas More was 3rd (should I have not passed). There was no question in my parents' minds in any of my family not going to RC schools. Caoimhe - maybe some people do play the religion card; just as some people move to be close to the 'best' school; just as some people choose the right primary feeder to get into the 'best' school; just as some people have their children tutored to get into the 'best' grammar school; just as some people decide that the independent route is the 'best' option creating further tiers in our system. It baffles me why those who practice their faith can't attend a faith school without being told that they are being supplemented by the tax payer.

"It baffles me why those who practice their faith can't attend a faith school without being told that they are being supplemented by the tax payer."

It baffles me why the taxpayer has to pay for faith schools!!! I don't have a problem with paying for special schools (which my children don't need) but faith schools are totally unnecessary. What do you imagine is going to happen to your children in a non-faith school? People always spout rubbish about being immersed in the faith, blah, blah, blah but it is such nonsense. All of my family went (and continue to go) to Catholic schools so I do know what I'm talking about.

I still think that segregating children on the basis of their parents' faith is a dreadful thing to do.

@Angel You were the year above me, then. :)

@Caoimhe but clearly you don't know what you are talking about because you are spouting the old anti-catholic 'their parents' faith' line. Doubtless some young people at catholic schools do not retain their faith (maybe some never have it in the first place). But you cannot say that every single young person in a catholic school does not have their own faith.

One thing that is happening to my DCs in non catholic schools now is that for some people it;s something to mock them about. Anti catholic bigotry has always been not only tolerated but encouraged in this country, while the vast majority of people don't do it, there are always some that do.

I pay humungous amounts of tax - many times the national average - and much of it goes on stuff I don't agree with (e.g. the defence budget). Although my children cannot benefit from faith schools I'm glad to pay twice for them (through tax and through the collection plate)

The choice is narrowed. It is always open for Catholics or other faiths to attend secular schools - there are at least a few at my son's secular school (and there were plenty at my own school - that was back in the dark ages when Catholic girls schools were not particularly academic).

That is the point. Secular schools are inclusive. Faith schools are exclusive. That is why my kids attend a secular school - I think even if I were a Christian, I would still want them to attend a secular school because I value them being able to meet people of other belief systems.

I have never had an issue with faith schools existing - I'm an if-it-aint-broke-dont try-to-fix-it type. Don't fiddle around too much with a system that is working. But what worries me at the moment is that faith bodies are aggressively trying to increase their control of the state education system. It is easy in Croydon as the council is trying to divest itself of any responsibility for education at all, and is handing over schools to anyone who is willing to run them as academies.

Doubtless you will say that the answer is for the godless to be equally aggressive, and I suppose it is coming to that. I would prefer if it did not.

Also, Metabilis, if your children are mocked at a secular school you do have the right to complain to the school. It would be against their policies and they should deal with it, the same as with any other form of bullying. (Obviously in practice this depends on how good the school actually is at dealing with bullying, and as we all know some of them are crap.) But that would be your right. Your children would be equal to any other children there, Muslim, Hindu, or pagan. If I sent my children to a faith school they would not be equal. It would not be their school.

How can people mock children for being Catholic? How does anyone else know what they are?

And pmsl at the idea of me being anti Catholic! I was brought up Catholic and was educated in Catholic schools. All of my family are Catholic and all of my dh's family are Catholic!!!!

If I was anti Catholic it would make family get togethers very awkward!!!

Downto - faith schools are not exclusive - there is normally a percentage admitted of non-faith (Coloma in practice doesn't as they are full up with RC's). You chose to send your DCs to a non-faith school but presumably you could have gone down the RC route. Re: Croydon divesting itself of any responsibility - I don't think it's their decision to agree to a school becoming an academy but the secretary of state. And, although my DCs attend RC schools, they have a good mix outside of non-RCs (cricket, netball clubs etc). There is some banter, for example, "going to church again; drinking the blood of Christ etc." but nothing to overly worry about. And Caoimhe - you say "How does anyone else know what they are?" They do - I've never really thought about how but I suppose it's because it just comes out in conversation.

Look, I don't want to get into another slanging match about faith schools. If you want to send your kids to a faith school I think you are crazy but I will defend your right to do stupid things I don't agree with. Not sure why the state should fund them, but whatever.

The issue I have here is the increase in faith schools. There is no question that it means less choice for the likes of me and I don't think that is fair. I would like the government to refuse to allow a secular school to become a faith school unless most of the pupils are of that faith. I don't see why religious people should disagree with that.

I would also like admissions to be split, so that people either apply to faith schools or secular schools. If you don't get into Coloma, go to St Marys. Don't be stealing my child's place at Shirley! What's wrong with St Marys anyway? Is it really a rubbish, awful school or is it perhaps quite a well run school with an intake that is strongly skewed towards the lower end of the academic and social spectrum? Why should religious people have a problem with that either?

Interesting point, downtomylastcigarette. I think that is an excellent idea. Sadly not possible to enforce it.

St Marys has a very poor intake - astonishing that the Catholics avoid it, you'd think it might inspire a little more Christian charity.

And as for faith schools not being exclusive - surely that the whole point of them?

No-one is ever going to convince Angel that faith schools are a bad idea. Not surprising as it is difficult for anyone to accept that something they want is obtained at the expense of others. Even worse for a religious person of course - pretty difficult to square it with his/her conscience I guess.

Yeah, I don't think faith schools reflect the best things about faith. I know a number of Christians who are lovely, sincere people. Even Richard Dawkings on a bad day would see that. But when they start talking about their kids' schools its a litany of pettiness and meanness. Someone persuaded the vicar to lie on their application, the mums in the playground are getting together to ostracise tomeone who is a single mother, etc., etc. It's all the nasty side of religion and I think its connected to the exclusiveness. Once they start discussing children who should not really have been admitted to their school, putting their own kid's precious place at risk, even the nicest ones drift into bitchiness.

Would I have accepted St Mary's if my DCs had not got one of their higher choices - probably not. I think I would have accepted Thomas More though. downto - although I am RC, I did list a CE school as one of my DDs choices - do you think that non-faith DCs should not be able to apply to any faith schools and faith people not to any non-faith?

Coloma isn't academically selective. It's purely based on faith criteria and distance. The fact that their intake is very academic is a reflection of how well the catholic primaries do. Our local catholic primary is always at the top of the league tables.