Faith Schools

[AngelEyes46]

On looking through previous threads, there seems to be a lot of controversy about faith schools, practicing the catholic faith, using the system to get into a over subscribed school. What are people's thoughts?

I am against ANY discrimination in taxpayer funded education, be it academic or religious.
I object to the fact that "religious" schools are permitted to teach their own (distorted) views on science, history, ethics, the treatment of women and non believers

Posted this on other thread.....
Got to stick my oar in about the faith schools. Where we live, there are two fantastic and hugely oversubscribed co-eds in the north and east of the town, an average mixed RC in the east, two good single sex comps fairly central and by lottery, a very good girls' catholic, a fairly ropey church school in the far northwest, a seriously failing co-ed covering a large area in the south, and one other co-ed, sort of average, in southwest. What this means is that you can draw a line down the middle of the town and if you live on one side you have a good chance of a good school, if you live on the other, not so good, and downright awful for some. What annoys me is that the Catholics here are 100% Catholic for primary. As soon as they reach 9 or 10, the Catholicism element of their education is suddenly not important after all. What happens is that the girls get the pick of the bunch and most go to the excellent girls' Catholic. The boys reject the mixed Catholic and take places at one of the better co-eds (many of them seem to live in the 'right place'). This means, and I know plenty of them, that lots of non-Catholics end up with one of the poorly-performing schools, unless they want a place at a faith school that so-called People of Faith have rejected. How come it's Catholic Catholic Catholic until, suddenly, 'Oh, we're not that catholic after all'???

To put the other side of the argument though, we moved 20 miles from a "naice" middle class area, to a much more mixed area, and moved our dc from an outstanding catholic primary into a failing catholic primary in order to keep them in the catholic system at secondary school.

Moscow - is what you mean that Catholics have better choice? You're kind of born into being a catholic in that you want to be a part of the church community and as such you want your children to go to a catholic school.

TalkingPeace - are you also against academies (where they can vary the curriculum, use their own pay scale and to an extent vary their admission policy?)

Angel
there is no "g" in my name :-)
and yes, I am against the fact that state funded schools of any sort can offer a distorted curriculum and admission policy.
Pay scales are not the issue for what the children are taught.
Bliar was ABSOLUTELY wrong that offering lots of types of schools would be good for education.
Gove just wants to weaken LEAS (for the same reasons Maggie did in 1979)

What the vast majority (ie the 94% who use state schools) of parents want
is good education for their child a reasonable distance from their homes.
Therefore all of the artificial "choice" is just a distraction.

All schools should accept all pupils and educate them to the best of the child's ability. Which means differentiation, options and pastoral care.
Not rocket science, but not glamorous either.

Is there really only 6% that opt out of the 'state system'?

In my area, we have many RC primary schools, attached to a local church with a catchment area via post code. The schools vary in standards so I suppose people could move parish and area but it requires a lot of planning. RC secondary schools admission policies have slight variations but all would ask for a commitment to the RC faith over a number of years.

It's very difficult to 'beat' the system with faith schools - a lot harder than renting a property in the 'right' area for a year!

Not sure if i agree about a distorted curriculum - everyone takes the same SATS, exams at the end don't they?

NB almost all Catholic schools are state funded, just have their own entrance system.

SATs :
KS1 : reading writing, numeracy
KS2 : English Maths
KS3 : gone
GCSE : choose your subjects
problem areas in faith schools : Science, history, ethics

how would they pick up the fact that evangelical schools are teaching WEIRD views of the world?

@talkinpeace2 NB Catholic schools do not receive 100% of their funding from the state. And 'Evangelical' is a term related to a branch of Protestantism. It is not related to Catholicism. I note (well) that while you rail intemperately against Catholics you remain silent about the other types of faith school. I also note that you clearly have no idea what is taught in catholic schools.

thetasigma
Here is the budget of a Secondary Catholic school :
www.hants.gov.uk/education/schools/budgetshares/files/2011/2/4604.pdf
which bit is not funded by the state?

"Evangelical" means preaching to the unconverted and is in no way specific to any "faith" - it is equally obnoxious in any situation

DH works in Catholic schools regularly. He loves them as they are always disorganised
their RE only covers catholicism
their ethics consider it acceptable that only men can take certain places in authority

My basic point is that there should not be school selection based on religion - at least not funded by those of us not of that (or any) faith

You are just jealous -

of what?

The RE doesn't only cover catholism that is simply nonsense.

I'm intrigued to know what special history is taught in catholic schools - as far as I know there is nothing controversial about the edexcel gcse.

Jealous of good Faith schools - if they were rubbish you woudn't care.

@Talkinpeace that is simply not true. Catholic schools are NOT always disorganised, any more than any other schools, they follow the NC for RE which requires the teaching of stuff about many different faiths, and we don't have female priests. That's it. You know what? I don't want to be a priest so I'm cool with that. Everyone who actually is catholic knows that the old ladies run the parishes anyway, not the priests.

The church is required to pay 10% of all capital expenditure in catholic schools. Despite the fact that Catholics pay taxes the same as everyone else and many of us pay a lot more than most people. In addition many, although not all, catholic schools are 100% owned, land and buildings, by the church, because they were built (usually with money raised by individual parishes rather than coming centrally from the church in England and Wales (I have no idea what happens in Scotland)) before catholic schools became part of the state system. Non catholic taxpayers didn't have to pay for those schools to be built or for the land on which they stand to be purchased. That represents a significant benefit to the state.

I went to a Catholic Secondary School (in NI), our religion classes covered many faiths, it was the whole point of the class.

Talkinpeace - Isn't it the parents choice whether they choose to send their DCs to a school? If a parent does not agree with the teachings and values of a school they can always decline the place.

And yes Catholic schools still have to follow a curriculum, their students still sit the same exam papers as the rest of the students in the UK, at the same time on the same day. Difference being that RE is probably a compusory subject at GCSE

@webwiz there is no special history taught in catholic schools. It's a completely ludicrous notion - almost Paisleyesque.

sorry talkinpeace2

she won't listen to your great arguments - she is jealous though a little unprincipled what with DH working in a faith school. "abolish them.. but not till DH gets his pay check"

I do wonder why people aren't honest and don't call their anti-catholic threads something like 'let's all bash Catholics'. There are far more CofE schools in England than there are catholic, there are also Muslim, Jewish and I think Sikh schools. Yet whenever somebody starts a 'faith schools' thread it's always about bashing the Catholics.

? jumjum
DH works in over 100 schools a year
why would I be jealous of a faith school?
My DCs went to a CofE primary and I was a governor
I'm lucky that round here we have fab comp secondaries and the CofE primaries are all open door

my ire is more that the whole state system gets tarred with the dysfunctional situation that arises where there is a shortage of places so schools have to find methods other than distance to select their children.

which is why I said at the top of the thread that every parent should have the option of getting into their nearest school in the knowledge that it would comprehensively educate all the children

thetasigmamum - there are lots of unpleasant Catholic bashing on Mumsnet. It is not logical on their part; they are simply jealous: if they can have a good Catholic school why should any DC. Sad really

Jealous, unprincipled and now we find hypocriical - "my DC went to a faith school but now they should be abolished"

Hhhmmm so if my nearest school was not a faith school but charged fees would I expect them to comprehensively educate my child even though I would not pay as I pay my taxes?

Who is altering the selection process now?

Selection by income bracket is the most pernicious way conceivable of determining a school population. Faith schools, like grammar schools, prevent people from 'buying their way in'. You can't get into either just because your parents can afford to buy a house in a massively overpriced catchment area. Distance based comprehensives are often the least mixed socially of all schools, while faith schools and grammar schools have much more diverse intakes. Some peoplereally don't like this. It's easy to see why.