Faith Schools

[AngelEyes46]

On looking through previous threads, there seems to be a lot of controversy about faith schools, practicing the catholic faith, using the system to get into a over subscribed school. What are people's thoughts?

jumjum
I would have been much happier if the school my kids had gone to was not CofE
BUT round here there ain't much choice - 3/4 of schools are CofE - so they are effectively community schools

please provide links for catholic bashing
I've not seen it

@jumjum it's quite obvious she only wants catholic schools abolished.

so are you saying the problem is general shortage of places or existence of faith schools.
I think you are wrong that most people want a good school on their doorstep - No. They want a great school and are prepared to travel if necessary. Your whole argument is flawed and confused

I'm still disappointed that there is no special catholic history. I quite liked the sound of that.

? thetasigma

sorry, where did you get that from?
Catholic schools have merrily muddled along for years
my PROBLEM is narrow schools - muslim, fundamentalist christian, Jewish, ANYTHING that excludes

and the whole tutored grammar system

you go to church if you want, but not with my tax money .

@webwiz Actually, we do. But shhhhh. It's a secret. It's The Lord of the Rings.

OK then.

But where are you going to find all the money to replace the schools (remember for all, except the very new ones the land and buildings are owned by the Churches).

talkingpeace2 - many schools are disorganised.

Disorgainsation is usually down to poor senior leadership within a school and there are many poor headteachers in non faith schools as there are many excellent headteachers in faith schools.

You had a choice of 1/4 of schools of schools in your area that were none faith but you choose to send your DCs to a faith sschool. Why was that? Better school by any chance?

Talkinpeace2 - I wasn't aware you paid my petrol money to church. But if you are offering... no point repeating the points made by other ad nausem on AntiCatholicnet; it's just jealously you have my pity not my anger

Edith
?
every 'controlled' school in the country is in the freehold of the LEA

I know that both as having been a governor and as the auditor of a couple of LEAs

and if the freeholders (churches) were forced to pay for the upkeep (as against capex) of all the 'aided' schools - they would become 'controlled' like a shot as the church just does not have that kind of money

@talkingpeace well, I doubt you pay more tax than me so I'm going on my tax money, but cheers for your 'permission'. And of course, my taxes are paying more for your leafy posh enclave Hampshire 'comp' than your taxes are paying for my DCs schools, because there's the 10% thing, the not having to pay for the buildings and land thing, and the Devon gets less money per head than almost every other LEA thing. So I'm subsidising you.

"forced to pay" - hey steady on....

jumjum
what is anticatholicnet?
is there a forum where some other bugger has nicked my name - I thought I had most bases covered.
If somebody has used my name in vain I apologise but it ain't me.

Well DS would be very happy if it was Lord of the Rings thetasigmamum

My DCs catholic school was wonderfully disorganised when DD1 started in 2002 but its a well oiled machine now. I did quite like the old way though. (Must ask about special history at next parents evening)

Calm down I am sure you want to register - but hey you already have.. here we are

the special history is Guido Fawkes

"every 'controlled' school in the country is in the freehold of the LEA"

Beg to differ. Leasehold from glebe land is the commonest arrangement, especially for VA schools.

Controlled schools are not the urgent question here, as they have by definition 100% community criteria for awarding places.

Glebe Land - well done Edith that's the Faith Geography we teach in our schools.

there's also the special English Lit we teach - al those great Catholic poets and authors. eg one Will Shakespeare, Hopkins and others
Not to mention Latin

VA = Aided = not controlled = we agree

and NO, controlled schools ARE allowed to sort by church in rural areas - I helped write the admission policy with the vicar

That is aberrant, and in contradiction to the Church's position.

AngelEyes I'm a little confused as to what you want thoughts on (let alone your motivations behind this).

'Using the system to get into a over subscribed school' - not sure what you mean by this- surely all applicants have to use the system to get a school place?

Talkinpeace2 - You ask which bit of the school's budget is not funded by the state. For a VC school the entire budget comes from the state and the church has less influence. For a VA school a charitable foundation owns the land and buildings and contributes at least 10% of any capital costs. But I'm sure you knew that.

You are quite wrong to say that the freehold is owned by the LA for every VC school in the country. In the vast majority of cases the land and buildings are owned by a charitable foundation.

Both VA and VC schools are required to follow the national curriculum.

There was a documentry on a couple of days ago, the first in a series called 'Catholics' this showed an RC primary where some of the children were being prepared for their first communion.

Very interesting.

Personally I think all faith schools should be banned, they discriminate not just at entry but the teachers they employ. They also often have mission statements where the first thing they say theydo is to pass on the RC faith - IMHO a school's primary purpose should be to educate.

I only have experience of RC schools and outside the RE (they only have to teach one other religeon to fit NC) there is often bias towards RC values / ethics in other subjects or 'pastoral care' such as not allowing the HPV vaccine to be given in school.

I don't know if any other faith schools have banned the vaccine, they may well havefor all I know.

I know of a non RC girl in an RC VI form who made the mistake of confiding in her teacher that she was pregnant. She was told she would be supported if she kept the baby but if she had an abortion she had to leave.

I don't know why this thread is so Catholic focused. Usually when we have this sort of discussion (an they come up on a very regular, so I have no idea why AngelEyes feels the need to stir up yet another one) it is pretty clear that people who don't like faith schools don't like any state funded faith schools (some don't like any non community schools, some are just anti-religion in education and some aren't bothered so long as the faith schools aren't state funded). I have never been on a thread before where it's just catholic schools that the issue.

For myself I think that all schools should ideally be good local comprehensives for all children, not just a sub set. I dislike single sex schools and 'specialist' academies too, and I think the concept of 'choice' is totally misplaced.

We were lucky to live in an urban area with several possible schools at primary, so were able to opt out of religious education (and I'm an ex-Catholic so could have probably got my children in to the Catholic school if I had really wanted to). Many people who live in rural areas have no choice at all, and that is in my opinion totally wrong. No one should be forced to send their child to a church school if they are not themselves of that faith. There are far more CoE/catholic schools than there are children from church going families, so the balance is fairly obviously all wrong.

Where we used to live all the local secondary schools were single sex, and the nearest boys school in addition was a 'sports academy' (before that it was a failing school). We could also have applied to a number of other single sex church schools in the area, and the council recently opened a new catholic school (despite having several catholic schools already in the borough). I wanted my children to go to the same school, think religion has no place in schools, and my son has little aptitude for sports. So the 'choices' offered were no choice at all.