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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Sutton Grammar School - Why all the secrecy if they have nothing to hide?

115 replies

incandecent · 26/01/2012 20:28

I understand that no grammar school can guarantee a place before the official deadline of 1 March 2012. However, does anyone have any idea why Sutton Grammar School are refusing to publish the results of boys who have not passed the exam? I have had a series of most infuriatingly patronizing and evasive replies from their registrar who blankly refuses to honestly answer specific questions. If anyone is in the same position as me, I have been in touch with the School Admissions Adjudicator who says that Sutton Grammar are not only permitted but encouraged to provide parents with information about the results before parents apply to other schools. Does anyone have an explanation for their behaviour? One is tempted to think that their selection process is secretive enough to be unfairly discriminatory.

OP posts:
CustardCake · 02/02/2012 10:25

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mumwithtwokids · 02/02/2012 10:57

Hi CustardCake - I know of a few children who only passed the 1 exam and were offered a place, and of those who passed all and weren't offered a place at any.

Sorry don't want to be doom and gloom but you just hear so many stories so not sure what to make of it all anymore :(

CustardCake · 02/02/2012 11:48

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Banter · 02/02/2012 13:12

KLA73 - Surrey allows parents list up to 6 preferences, not 3 - see page 12 www.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/177697/Secondary-schools-admissions-booklet_WEB.pdf

mumwithtwokids · 02/02/2012 13:27

custardcake - totally agree and find the waiting unbearable. I've resigned myself to the fact that my DS will end up in the school he's destined for and no amount of worrying will change that.

kla73 · 02/02/2012 15:47

Thanks Banter - that is good news.

gazzalw · 03/02/2012 07:48

HI Mumwithtwokids! I so hope we are not one of those families.....It somehow seems illogical that that happens. As CustardCakes says and my FIL (who is highly intelligent agrees) passing three would tend to indicate very solid passes whereas passing one (and failing the others) would generally indicate a scrape through.... It must happen because of the sheer numbers of boys taking the exams but statistically it is a blip surely? And if we're talking about passing Tiffin but not the other three well that is a different kettle of fish as the Tiffin exam is quite different isn't it, so taps into different skill sets.....

I am probably sadly deluded but we will be so, so disappointed if he ends up at the bog standard comp after all the effort DS has put into the 11+ exams and all the ensuing anxiety.... Sad

CustardCake · 03/02/2012 08:59

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mumwithtwokids · 03/02/2012 10:31

CustardCake - My DS only passed two but not feeling very confident as am thinking they may be scrape throughs as I didn't tutor. When he sat the first exam which we didn't really prepare for he came out so, so happy to the point he found it quite easy. I found this quite ironic given that initally we weren't going to apply as initially DS wasn't sure about it however he's since changed his mind. The one he didn't pass he missed out by a couple of points. Part of me feels really guilty and feel that I've let him down slightly as I should have done more. However it's been a valuable lesson so will probably do things a bit different with my second DS.

Am hoping he gets into our third choice which is an outstanding comp and I know he'll do well there too and will be happy. I'm just worried he won't be offered a place there either.

CustardCake · 03/02/2012 11:41

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mumwithtwokids · 03/02/2012 12:12

Thanks CustardCake - I've PM'd you.

Blu · 03/02/2012 13:03

SO much rests on how they perfomr for that hour on that day, doesn't it?

I was looking back at some other threads, and see that although Graveney admit a high number of places on the highly competitive selective test, they do not use that test for streaming children once they get in, and quite often 'test' entrants are in the Upper, rather than Extension sets, because the banding is done on Sats results and other assessments, not the Wandsworth test. Ergo the Wandsworth test is jut a snapshot of how they perforom in set of tests, on one day. So much pressure and such big decisions.

gazzalw · 03/02/2012 13:29

CustardCake and other Mumsnetters, I hang my head in shame - you are right that I shouldn't have been so disparaging - Blush. One of the perils of emails etc.... flow of consciousness without reviewing.

CustardCake · 03/02/2012 14:04

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gazzalw · 03/02/2012 14:33

Well I know what you mean - but even those parents for whom my erroneously named 'bog-standard' comp is very much a likelihood aren't in the main inspired by it....

But it is very difficult. We have many friends with DSs in our DS's class who did the 11+ exams and haven't to date passed any of them..... so it's horrid feeling proud of DS (but at the same time very apprehensive that he might not get a selective school place) but at the same time really feeling for friends and their plight.....

We have a lot of parents of DCs in DS's class who haven't applied for the obvious comp options at all and I fear that there is going to be widespread disappointment on 1st March....none of us is confident!

Anywhere another day of mulling over the subject and another day closer to the dreaded O Day......

coolascucumber · 03/02/2012 14:42

Deep breaths everyone, it's only school. Look around at who you went to school with, people you know who are successful or happy or prosperous. Was it all down to their schooling?

DS1 looked like he would do really well at the 11+ but on the day of the test we broke down and only got there just in time amid alot of stress. This completely ruined his results on the first part of the test (English) which should have been his easiest paper and he failed miserably. He then went on to be offered a place by accident at his second choice school which was then withdrawn after an admin error was discovered. Loads of stress and an unsuccessful appeal followed.

He's now in Y10 attending a school which has just emerged from special measures. He is one of the brightest kids there and although his results won't be as amazing as if he had gone to the grammar school he will still succeed because his parents are active, supportive and keeping a close eye on his studies.

Chill, it's only school, it is far from the only factor determining your child's future.

Blu · 03/02/2012 17:18

I think your story has caused several people to hyperventilate themselves into a coma, CoolAsCucumber Grin

coolascucumber · 03/02/2012 18:10

Thread killer strikes again!

Think next years 11+ parents are probably off arranging a back up car to follow them to the test centre!

Perhaps they haven't attended the 'Just About Good Enough School of Parenting'.

CustardCake · 03/02/2012 18:35

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gazzalw · 03/02/2012 18:40

It's the classic fear of the unknown really and you are right that I am sure we may become level-headed about this a year down the line (I jolly well hope so....). Always believe that what is meant to be is meant to be so by the same token DS will get the school that will be right for him Confused

dlbp · 03/02/2012 19:25

I blame the government over the years...If all the state comprehensives were up to scratch, we wouldn't all be worrying about the schools so much and these poor year 6 kids wouldn't be pushed so much to perform for entry to grammar school. The alternative to grammar schools in many areas is an under performing comprehensive. Many say they will be fine in the top set at the local comprehensive but having looked into my local one - out of 210 year 11 kids, only 2 A's at maths GCSE. 45% failed in total. This is failing not only the bright kids that missed out going to grammar but all the children. No wonder we are all desperate for our kids to go to grammar.

gazzalw · 04/02/2012 07:52

Totally agree with you dlbp - in an ideal world all comps would give pupils the same ops as they do at selective/indie schools but that just doesn't happen at a lot of them.

I am pretty sure that most of us would have preferred not to have to spend a fortune on Bond Books and chivvying DCs to do practice papers over the summer hols - I for one am naturally inclined to want to relax on time off rather than trying to motivate a recalcitrant tween to be bothered!

Yes, CustardCake, after getting on for a year of thinking about secondary school options this is the point at which one starts totally losing sight of the reality of the situation - is there such a thing as secondary school choice option stress-induced psychosis???

Just think that after Christmas things do seem bleak generally so it is the worst time to be on the count-down to Offers Day.....(does that make sense?)

Banter · 04/02/2012 08:28

This is stating the obvious, I know, but you are talking about an area that includes super-selective grammar schools. An able child is an able child whether they attend a grammar, a comprehensive or an independent school. The children we are talking about are those in the top sets, who typically achieve 700 ? 800 GCSE points. All other things being equal, do you really think that wouldn't happen if your area were fully comprehensive?

Thanks to coolascucumber for sharing your story. I wish your son every success. I'll have everything crossed for you both. xxx

SoupDragon · 04/02/2012 08:44

"An able child is an able child whether they attend a grammar, a comprehensive or an independent school."

Except if you put an able child into a school which won't push them you get an able chid who fails to meet their potential. It is naive to think you can put an able child into any school and have them succeed to the same level they would in a "super selective" environment.

asiatic · 04/02/2012 09:17

I disagree Soupdragon. The biggest single factor in how well a child does at ascholl is support from home. The second biggest factor is attitude abd ability of the child. ( attitude, as well as ability). Next, comes attitude of pupils who the child id sitting next to, ( which school they are in as little affect on the attitude of the child in the next seat) Teachers come some way down the list, and again, standard of teaching/ attitude of teacher is not related to the school. Most teachers spend parts of their careers in many diffeent types of school.