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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Are you a pushy parent?

76 replies

happygardening · 14/12/2011 09:38

I was reading another thread and its made me wonder what pushy really means? And does it really help?
My MIL was/is pushy personified but ultimately it didn't do any good. Should we be more laid back and let our DC's get on with it? How do we achieve the right balance?

OP posts:

Colleger · 14/12/2011 10:04

I think I am far too lazy to be pushy. I want the best for my children, as any parent does, but in order to get this I put them in the best (perceived) environments and let them do the work. Pushiness is all about control and the fact that my boys board mean that I have virtually no control over their academic or extra-curricular lives. I do research opportunities for them and encourage them to try it once but if they hate it then I wouldn't pursue it. Even Purcell is a lazy way out for me. I am fed up with music practice, driving here, there and everywhere so DS gets musical opportunities etc and at Purcell he'll do it all there.

Maybe I am pushy in the sense that I make sure I know about all opportunities available, most get discounted, some do not. When I speak to some parents it doesn't cross their mind that there could be more out there than the local school, or that their are musical and sporting opportunities available. I'm not knocking that, sometimes too much knowledge is not a good thing and ignorance can be bliss!

But I have never chained my children to work books or instruments. They are too headstrong and I am too lazy!

acorntree · 14/12/2011 10:09

I think there is a difference between pushy (pushing children to do things that you want them to do but perhaps the child is not particularly interested in) and supportive (supporting the childs learning and interests, encouraging your child to develop interests and a love of learning). Pushy is probably not very helpful, supportive is generally very helpful. It's a difficult line to tread though, remaining supportive without becoming pushy.

Bonsoir · 14/12/2011 10:11

I think it's fine to push your children - just not to flog them!

goinggetstough · 14/12/2011 10:49

Agree with Bonsoir

manicinsomniac · 14/12/2011 10:52

mmm, I suspect I might be a bit pushy in terms of performing artsy stuff. My children do dance, drama, singing and gymnastics and, if they ever want to give up, I will be devestated! (I guess I'd get over it rahter than force them though!!)

Original poster

happygardening · 14/12/2011 11:12

Do you think children can do too many of these things? I work with children many seem to under terrible pressure to do well are are not coping I'm never sure if the pressure comes from parents or within themselves maybe influenced by parents or the school. I would love to hear from the self confessed pushy.

OP posts:

Bonsoir · 14/12/2011 11:19

My DD does lots of extra-curricular activities but she wants to do them all. I have let her abandon the ones she has started and not enjoyed because I understood and sympathised with the reasons she wasn't enjoying them, and the very last thing I want to do is have a battle over them.

Colleger · 14/12/2011 11:22

My boys don't do any extra curric that is not school related and they sign up for that themsleves. In the holidays they may do the odd music course like NCO or if they've been on the PC for eight hours every day for one week I lose the plot and chuck them on a PGL type course for sone exercise. Mist of the times it's so I can have a break though! :)

wordfactory · 14/12/2011 11:24

I'm sure some would say yes I am.
I certainly expect very high effort and achievement in line with ability.

I also put in a lot of effort myself to ensure that my DC's education is the very best it can be. It is my responsibiliy. I see myself as a home educator and school is just one of the many resources I use.

That said, I'm no Tiger Mother. The DC have lots of sleepovers, dates with friends etc. They watch telly, play on the PC and generally loaf...

wordfactory · 14/12/2011 11:27

My DC have always done a fair bit of extra curricular activity. Heavyily involved in high level sport, choirs, drama. All require a high level of commitment from both DC and me.

As soon as they are no longer enjoying themselves we quit. I am not in the business of making anyon eunhappy.

AMumInScotland · 14/12/2011 11:28

What acorntree said. Pushy is something that is all coming from the parent, and doesn't take into account what the child actually wants, or is even interested in or capable of. Supportive is helping and encouraging children to carry on with things that they have an interest in.

Sometimes the parent has to be a bit pushy to keep the child motivated while they get over a blip, but that should be a short-term thing and not the underlying motivation.

We probably looked like pushy parents with DS, as he spent a lot of time doing music stuff and we were always taking him to things and it affected choice of schools etc. But it all came from him being keen, and we checked from time to time that he really did still want to be so focussed on it. If he'd wanted to ease back, we'd have gone along with that.

Bonsoir · 14/12/2011 11:28

My DP and I are always class reps and involved in the academic side of Parents' Associations etc. We have all the characteristics that others might term pushy, but our children love the fact that we are so involved and so informed about their education. They trust us when we help them with their decision-making processes because they know - from experience - that we have the right information.

Original poster

happygardening · 14/12/2011 12:29

Maybe the "tiger mummy's" have got it right (love the term) in the future their children will be competing against ours and they will have a culture of being the best and working unbelievably hard to get there. Is this what employers want my DH does.
I heard somewhere that in 20 years all top orchestras will be dominated by Chinese. Perhaps we aren't doing our children any favours by not pushing them and instilling in them the drive to be the best at everything. The future for our DC's is not looking good maybe we should all become Tiger mummies.

OP posts:

purits · 14/12/2011 12:34

I am pushy / supportive.
There is no way that you can make a teenager do something they don't want to do, not unless you are some sort of authoritarian - in which case you will mess them up emotionally. I am a bit upset that DC don't like my favourite school subject but OTOH I constantly marvel at the things that they are proficient in that I could never do.

AMumInScotland · 14/12/2011 12:39

I'll be interested to see in the future whether the children of the "tiger mummies" actually have self-motivation when their mother stops being the one doing the pushing!

Instilling a sense of self-motivation in your children is important, but I don't think making them do things they don't have any interest in is going to do that, more likely just demotivate them because they are being made to do something they have no love for, for other people's reasons.

Pushing them to keep on at something they enjoy, when its hard work and not particularly rewarding in the short term, will teach them to persevere and not always look for instant gratification. But making them continue with something they don't get a longterm pleasure from won't instill that value.

RealLifeIsForWimps · 14/12/2011 12:43

Happy I live in HK so have seen the "tiger moms" first hand. In some ways, it is a positive. Chinese children achieve a lot academically, especially in hard subjects, they are mostly fluent in English, mandarin and Cantonese by secondary school and there are virtually no discipline problems in schools because there is a widespread culture of achievement. However, the flip side is that some of thee children have schedules that would make a city lawyer weep. They have no time to just be, to use their imaginations, to be bored. They don't really choose their own interests. Things that are not obviously useful, such as sport or drama, are often overlooked.

It's not what I'd choose for my child, but at the same time I like the fact he'll grow up somewhere where academic achievement isn't sneered at.

RealLifeIsForWimps · 14/12/2011 12:45

AMIS My guess would be yes, because there's so much cultural pressure- it's not just from the parents. Also, remember that China (and even HK) has a very rudimentary welfare system, so you really do have to "do for yourself", and everyone knows this. The difference between the haves and the have nots is far more pronounced.

Colleger · 14/12/2011 12:53

I doubt orchestras will be filled with Chinese musicians because on the whole that same cultural drive means that they only value the violin and piano. Most woodwind sections tend to be White with the very odd Chinese clarinettist.

My motto is along the lines of "leading a horse to water". I've provided them with the best and it's up to them to grasp it. I doubt they will. OH was the same and he wasted his education. It wasn't until he had kids that the drive kicked in!

Floggingmolly · 14/12/2011 12:57

Why would you be devastated, Manic ? My kids do all that stuff too, but purely because they love it, if they ever want to stop that'll be entirely their choice. What do you get out of it?

Original poster

happygardening · 14/12/2011 13:14

I'm not saying the tiger mummies are necessarily right just very interested in people's view particularly in these difficult times. I definately think the point about the welfare state is valid I believe a similar ethos applies in many other developing countries; India for example.
Does this pushy work hard ethos prepare children better for their jobs as adults? Particularly Lawyers bankers doctors etc. I work witMonday and more Chinese they're incredibly hard working and able if they don't know something they quickly find out never resting on their laurels.

OP posts:

lljkk · 14/12/2011 13:33

Tell us all about pushy your MIL, OP.

I think I am the antithesis of pushy, except re swimming: I push weekly lessons beyond achieving "They won't drown" level. I don't have the energy for more than that, though.

Theas18 · 14/12/2011 14:06

I dunno- certainly expect high effort grades at school regardless of academic ability. THe DC happen to be academically able but if they weren't and struggled I'd like to think a 1 for effort even with a D for achievement should be praised as much as a 1 for effort and A for achievement (and conversely I'd me mightily less impressed by a 3 for effort even with an A for achievement!).

Orchestras wont all be Chinese, but the string sections will LOL (DD1 went to a concert recently and peered at the orchestra and said tongue in cheek- why aren't the violins all Chinese? They are at school!).

Dunno why but actually getting the kids to stop any activity is difficult- even when cubs was making them really sad (DS and DD2 in turn) Ds answer was "but they (the bullies) are really my friends , it's just.....sniff" .... Needless to say a I found a reason that he'd "have" to give up!

Now, whilst I don't support "skiving" - if you are in the orchestra you go to all the rehearsals etc TBH the kids push themselves. I encourage re music practice if they haven't done any that week but homework etc my role seems to be to get them to fit it into the time rather than to produce hugely detailed long work!

Re exams I have taken a very scary route. I will help with planning if needed re timetables but then I leave it up to them.... totally... so far it seems to have been a good choice- eldest can balance a great uni social life, singing, and getting the work done to schedule- because she's always been in charge of balancing things when she was at school.

Original poster

happygardening · 14/12/2011 14:43

My MIL a teacher was never happy with anything my DH or SIL did. If they got 39/40 why didn't they get 40 if they got 40 it must have been an easy exam. If you came top of the class the others must have been ill/absent/stupid. if you did two hours homework then do another hour this would be your chance to get ahead of the others, once you'd done that hour you should do another to get even further ahead and so it went on. Both my DH and SIL were at top independent schools neither went to uni my SIL dropped out half way through and my DH did NO work for his and only achieved mediocre grades. They both learnt three instruments the third for "fun" but were still expected to do all the grades and practice everyday plus four hours homework a day. It took my DH years to get over it and my SIL never has.

OP posts:

Yellowstone · 14/12/2011 14:57

No I most definitely am not but I'd like to be about where colleger is. In my next life perhaps.

MoreBeta · 14/12/2011 15:02

Colleger - I am with you. DSs go to a good school with loads of opportunities. We encourage them to make the most of it and we only demand that they behave properly and do what their teachers ask them to do.

Other than that, it is up to them.

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