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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Are you a pushy parent?

76 replies

happygardening · 14/12/2011 09:38

I was reading another thread and its made me wonder what pushy really means? And does it really help?
My MIL was/is pushy personified but ultimately it didn't do any good. Should we be more laid back and let our DC's get on with it? How do we achieve the right balance?

OP posts:

lljkk · 14/12/2011 17:09

I think the Amy Chua line is that Social + Parental pressure & expectations can be strong and valuable motivational forces, making the best work habits as natural as breathing. Not that I could ever be like her, but I think I want to read her book now, maybe she does say some stuff I'd find useful. I am maybe too quick to shrug & think "you can't work at if you don't enjoy it", and "You'll be happier & richer some time in the distant future if you work hard now." Kids aren't mature enough to think long term, really. So parents have to do it for them. Even if DC hated reading or swimming I'd still insist they picked up basic skills at them. Pushy parents just draw have higher expectations about stuff I'd find optional.

I suspect what we parents "should" most aspire to (not pretending I'm super successful at this!) is instilling good core values. Do things to help DC see and know the value of education, hard work, consistency, good social skills, diligence, self-discipline, basic academic skills (reading, math). And try to put them into perspective relative to each other: I imagine that hard work usually trumps native talent, for instance.

Original poster

happygardening · 14/12/2011 17:32

20 years ago the Germans were the bet dressage riders in the world. In the UK we marvelled; many had jobs (lawyers etc) as well as winning Olympic medals!? Reiner Klimke described in a book how he got up at 4 in the morning and trained before going to work and then trained again after work. IIjkk your right hard work does trump talent.

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Bonsoir · 14/12/2011 17:54

Hard work is vital for success in anything, however much natural talent you are born with. Good teachers are pretty important, too.

RealLifeIsForWimps · 14/12/2011 23:15

I think what the Chinese are good at is recognising that some things are key to success and even if you are rubbish at them, you just have to overcome that. I'm sure some Chinese kids find English really hard, whilst others are natural linguists. However, going home to your mum and saying "I'm rubbish at English so I'm going to drop it and do media studies instead" is going to earn you very short shrift. They realise that unless you have close to fluent English, you won't get a good job with international potential, so even if they have to work 5 x as hard as the kid next to them to achieve that, they will do it. Similarly, they are very hot on the basics- good numeracy and literacy. Where they fall down (at the moment) is critical reasoning and creative thinking. Part of this is cultural- it is a very conformist society. Most of it is just the structure of the education system- Chinese is non-phonetic so to learn to write it you have to memorise the symbols. This takes years and means that early education is taken up with basic literacy to the exclusion of almost everything else.

lljkk · 15/12/2011 05:27

I bet there are lots of underachievers in Chinese societies, too, it's a quarter of humanity after all.

I was wondering about objective measures of life satisfaction. It's a very crude measure/correlation to make, but death by suicide rates (annual, per 100,000 population):

South Korea (high achiever society) 34.1
France 16.3
Hong Kong 14.6
China 13.85 (mega caveats)
Ireland 11.8
USA 11
Singapore (Chinese overachiever society, but very high standard of living) 10.3
Australia (my notional ultra-laid back place) 9.7
UK 6.9
Italy 6.3
Brazil 4.6
Places like Iran, Jamaica, Haiti & Azerbaijan (other middle east countries) at bottom of the table.

nokissymum · 15/12/2011 09:27

By british standards i'd probably be considered "pushy", i don't think i am, i do want i can to help my children to achieve in life. I believe a good education opens many doors so my children know i don't joke around with it.

I believe "character" also gets you a long way through the ups and down of life, so there's a lot of pressure on us personally to lead by example which isnt always easy, but the fact we always have it in mind on a day to day helps.

Fennel · 15/12/2011 09:38

I think I'm getting a bit pushier as my dc approach secondary age, but this is a lot to do with the schools they are going to, they are going to the bog standard local comp (the sort most mumnsetters would avoid like the plague) and I think it's a perfectly nice school but it is quite laid back in terms of not loads of homework, short school days etc. So I take on a bit of pushiness in terms of making sure they do do their (small) amounts of homework thoroughly. And I encourage extra-curricular activities. I don't make them do any of those, but I make them do some activities and put a reasonable effort in while they're doing them. If they resisted this I might just let it go, I'm certainly not Tiger Mum.

nokissymum · 15/12/2011 09:48

fennel i think most mumnetters kids do go to the local comp!

Takver · 15/12/2011 11:32

I'm probably about with Fennel - dd's primary is fine but not great, and we are pushy to the extent of making sure that she is keeping up to a reasonable level compared to what is expected for her age. I'd rather push a bit now (only to the extent of 15 minutes writing and spelling practice at home each day, btw, not that harsh!) than see her struggle at school and get demotivated.

OTOH extra curricular activities I feel are mostly up to dd - I'll cart her around if she wants to do them, but I certainly won't force her to do music practice, for example. If she dropped them all, though, I might try to encourage her to look for something else she would enjoy. At the moment its not a problem and she'll sign up for anything and everything given the chance

maypole1 · 15/12/2011 11:41

I would say I am sharp elbowed

Fennel · 15/12/2011 11:43

I dither a lot about music practice, I am not musical myself though I did learn instruments (badly) as a child so I don't feel very confident about how much to push. Currently we have just bought 11yo a flute and she's having lessons, which she wanted, I didn't make her. And I said she had to commit to 2 years of properly practising, and going to lessons, and she can give up after 2 years. I never know whether to make them do lots of practice, what counts as enough, etc. Music's the thing I'm least confident about though, I feel quite on top of the academic and arty and social things.

Takver · 15/12/2011 12:12

I guess with music practice it depends whether its just a matter of them forgetting / needing a bit of encouragement to start, or whether they really don't want to do it that much. I started out as the former when I learnt as a child, got very bored after a couple of years (at which point I stopped learning) then came back to it as a teenager & didn't need any encouragement at all.

DD was definitely in the camp of 'would like to be able to play but doesn't actually enjoy the practicing' - at which point I think it definitely would have moved from 'supportive' to 'pushy' getting her to continue.

Just hope, Fennel, that your dd doesn't discover a passion for the tenor saxophone as a 14 y/o . . . I think my parents were very, very patient in retrospect, (unlike the dog who howled piteously whenever I practiced and had to be shut out).

Original poster

happygardening · 15/12/2011 14:36

maypole1 what do you mean by sharp elbowed?

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manicinsomniac · 15/12/2011 14:58

Floggingmolly - I don't know, I think that just because Performing Arts is everything to me, I want them to be good at it and love it too. I know I can't choose their preferences but it wouldn't stop me from being upset if they changed. I suppose I would stand on the side of a hockey field and cheer for the them in the same way as I watch their dance shows but I wouldn't love it and I wouldn't feel connected to them in the same way.

Maybe I'm guilty of trying to live through them. I wanted to be a professional and was never quite good enough. Now I hope that one or both of them might be instead.

wordfactory · 15/12/2011 16:00

Shudders at the thought of music practisce horrors.

I will gladly stand at any wind and rain driven sideline. I will test verb conjugations until I am rigid with boredom...but do not make me sit with a grumpy trumpet player ever again. Please.

Fennel · 15/12/2011 16:21

I'm so relieved that none of mine like team sports. No need to ever stand on a cold muddy sports ground for us.

I don't consider team sports to be at all important so feel no need to push on that one. I have this anxiety that perhaps musical competence might be a good thing even if I haven't felt the lack of it.

wordfactory · 15/12/2011 16:24

Team sports are not for the faint of heart it's true. But for we the true hard core I give you...cross country.

Standing in the wind and rain to perhaps catch a glimpse on the brow of a hill.

Fennel · 15/12/2011 16:41

Brrrr. I suggest Judo. Nice and indoors. Warm halls.

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 15/12/2011 17:01

I think the camaraderie that comes from being on a sports team is far more important than being able to bang out An Die Musik on the piano.

lljkk · 15/12/2011 17:06

DD is good at Judo AND cross-country.
Football though, ugh, the level of commitment, just, UGH.

Bonsoir · 15/12/2011 17:17

I hated team sports, particularly hockey and am so glad that French schools have no sports facilities and never expect parents to show up anywhere.

And we're packing DD and DSS2 off to summer camp in the US next year for intense sports under other people's supervision and encouragement

jeee · 15/12/2011 17:20

I thought I wasn't pushy... until the time came to sit the 11+

wordfactory · 15/12/2011 17:39

Sadly (for me) my DC are in every school team going and are in some teams outside of school.
It probably is A Good Thing for all sorts of reasons...but all those good things are probably cancelled out by the sheer brutality that is cross country. Watching my DC make themselves sick rather than come second is ...levellling.

Takver · 15/12/2011 19:01

MrsJAlfredPrufrock - but what about the camaraderie of an orchestra or chamber group? DH certainly get his dose of camaraderie from his choir (and I don't suppose has ever willingly participated in any team sport in his life).

Original poster

happygardening · 15/12/2011 19:23

The worse sport for you DC's to do has to be riding a 52 week committment literally come hell or high water a small fortune in money the other parents are ghastly a hot line to the vet and hours standing on the side of an arena or in a muddie field watching a pony club event.

OP posts:

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