Are you a pushy parent?

[happygardening]

I was reading another thread and its made me wonder what pushy really means? And does it really help?
My MIL was/is pushy personified but ultimately it didn't do any good. Should we be more laid back and let our DC's get on with it? How do we achieve the right balance?

I'm probably quite pushy - but am trying to strike a happy medium, between my own parents' v high expectations and acdemic pressure (which led me to Oxford but also to depression) and my dh's complete lack of pressure, which led him to massively under-achieve until he met me and had kids. I'd probably tend more to letting the kids chill and him the reverse, as a result, but toether we try to strike a happy medium. Also, we haven't been as fortunate as colleger - my dc's school has given them some years of superb teachers, where my input has needed to be very small, but some really appalling teachers, where if i hadn't stepped in, they would have made no progress - my ds has one this year so unless I help him he won't learn to read properly or get the foundations of basic maths.

I disagree with the idea above that children should never be made to do stuff they don't want - the fundamental reason why my kids have done well at school is because - and I sympathise with the tiger mothers here - I believed in them when they didn't believe in themselves and would have given up. I did make them keep at it eg practicing reading etc until they had grasped the basics and could them enjoy making further progress on their own. As a result, my eldest was top at reading and now never stops reading - but she did have to be 'pushed' against her will initially.

But no, i don't make them practice for hours, and they only do one out of school activity at a time, as I'm too lazy/poor to organise more. SO hopefully not too pushy.

it's hard to judge yourself accurately. I don't honestly know but I don't think I am pushy. The reason I am not entirely sure is that I definitely have high expectations in some things and I make it clear. So the pressure of living up to that I suppose is always there. I don't hover about overseeing homework for example but I think my dd is well aware that I like to see good work and that I expect her to show an interest in educating herself. She knows well enough what I admire or like to see and at the moment, she also wants dh and I to be proud of her so I suppose in that way she is not operating in a free wheeling atmosphere.

I would say you become pushy as opposed to supportive when you have a domineering and controlling hand in what your dc does. I hope I am not like that, I wouldn't like to be

Interesting stats about high academic achieving countries. I heard the man who set up Apple with Steve Jobs use S.Korea as a point, saying Apple could never have happened there, as whilst most people are well educated, creativity is Zero. Something to think about.

RealLifeIsForWimps
your comment is the most interesting

I come from high achieving families, three of them, one by design, one by hard work and one by REAL hard work
I have never been allowed to forget that I "should have" achieved more than I have.
And I am damned if I'll pile that guilt onto my kids.
They both wish to do well. I'll hassle them for underachieving but not penalise them for choosing their own path

The schools have not always lived up to expectations but sometimes it has to be enough. DS1 in particular has not been stretched in some areas and had he been a day boy he would have achieved more. But in the scheme of things we needed balance so OH and I pushed ourselves to afford these schools rather than push the kids, who are very lazy and non-aspirational...sigh.

I am definitely pushy, but in my own way. I could identify with some of what Amy Chua said - what especially rang a bell with me was her statement that she assumed her children would be resilient enough to be pushed, to have high expectations put to them from a young age, and to accept criticism or suggestions for improvement. We have chatted from an early age about what they will do when they are grown up and no matter what hairbrained notion of a career they had I have always said "I think that's a marvelous idea and if you pay attention and work hard in school, do your homework every night and study for tests you can do that." Or words to that effect.

I make sure criticism is positive - in that I think Amy Chua and I part company. I also think that you need to allow them the illusion that they are choosing what they want to do, meanwhile making them develop solid organisational and work habits until they get to the point of feeling that not doing homework or studying is unthinkable, and trusting that by the time they have to choose a career, you will have brainwashed them enough to choose something other than owning a pet shop with their best friend (DD4) or being Batman (DS) or owning a dog farm (DD2) or hairdressing (DD1). The child to be worried about, imo, is the one who accepts without a fight whatever her parents tell her about herself or her future, or who has no idea herself what she wants to do.

We bypassed music and dance except for a brief foray into the (crazy, and crazy expensive) world of Irish dancing with one DD. The DCs have participated in sport instead and we have been lucky enough to have good sport opportunities in their schools. They are not naturally talented in any sport as far as I can see, but they have played, and I have done my share of getting them out for 5.30 am practices in order to facilitate this. They have all done their share of babysitting and weekend jobs too, from age 12, and chores around the house from earlier. I think the more you expect the DCs to fit into a day the more they end up fitting in and the better they get at time management and prioritisation. Fitness is good for the mind. They have all done as much by way of art as I could find for them, both in school and at home, partly because art is sort of my thing and I like to have something I am enthusiastic about to share with them, but also because I think it's a good thing for any brain to have both sides up and running.

We have not bypassed academic subjects and I insist on real effort in all areas but in maths above all else. This is where I sing from the same hymn sheet as the Tiger Mom. I am willing to do whatever it takes to get the DCs to reach their potential and I firmly believe (not without evidence) that their potential is great. I think you have to set the ground rules right from the start and to make a big effort in the primary years to get them reading, to get them interested in the world around them, to help them see the link between effort and results - in as positive a way as possible, not using punishment, talking themselves into believing they can achieve whatever they set their minds to and encouraging them to be positive about themselves.

Want to add, I wasn't too upset when DS dropped trumpet (why did I ever think that would be a good idea?) and DD2 decided the clarinet wasn't for her.

Well they would have to find some method of funding that themselves, because I would not.

Once they are 18 they can choose anything they want for themselves, theoretically, but I have made it clear to them that there is no financial support whatsoever available from me for whatever they choose if it's not university (so it had better be something that pays enough to support them fully, including a roof over their heads), that even university support is going to be extremely limited, and that loan officers and financial aid offices are going to be their best bet.

I think Acorn said it best.

I was born, sadly, to narcissistic parents who barely know what year I was in at school let alone what homework needed doing. So knowing what that kind of neglect does I do take an interest in my kids and require them to do their best. But not for my glory, but because I know that scrambling up the rungs later is harder than if you had just got the grades in the first place.

Above all, if you have the dosh send them to boarding school and the this-is-not-personal routine and pressure to do well is done for you. No rebellion results, because it isn't Mum & Dad telling them to tidy their rooms turn off their computers and do their prep.

I think thats very true about boarding school they're pushing my DS very hard instead of me and there better at it than I am! I just get the good bits like putting up the Xmas decorations tonight.

I always smile when I read people generalise about a billion Chinese (I'm Chinese myself).

While at state primary school we got our kids doing Kumon maths and English. On top of this there were the music lessons and the daily practice sessions. As a result we got a reputation for being 'typical' pushy Chinese parents.

My kids are now in Year 7 at indies and for the first time they/we are with like minded children/parents white, black, Indian and Chinese.

My point? Having high aspirations for your children is not just a Chinese thing. Those who think that the Chinese are more so are just clinging to a racial stereotype, just like the primary school parents we left behind.

I worry I might be a pushy mum. I don't want to be, I want to be a great mum who facilitates my children's interests rather than takes over, but sometimes I am unsure where the line is.

For example, felt unhappy about pre-schooler's care... mulled it over for ages then eventually spoke up. Great response but left wondering if I am now officially a pushy mum?

DD wanted to learn piano. OK - but sometimes she doesn't want to practice and gets sulky if I remind her. I don't want to make her unhappy but also what is the point of taking lessons if you don't practice?

Those are the sort of things that I wonder about...

My parents took very little interest in me - never knew my friends' names, what I liked doing, didn't come to my wedding etc and I wanted to be a different sort of parent, for my children to know they are adored and that I am always here for them. But no doubt there is a downside to doing it all differently and perhaps that will become apparent with time...

Imaginethat, follow your gut. If you are anything like me you remember how lost and lonely powerless and futile it felt to try and work out life on your own, and don't want your kids to feel that.

Well, good on you. I have since read a report that children can actually cope well and even THRIVE in abusive homes - as long as there are rules. What children cannot cope with, is the eternal void of neglect. That a child of schizophrenic parents do better than children of neglectful parents, can you believe it!

As long as we do our best, and stay on guard for that living our lives through our children thing, that their best (and not an A*) is wonderful for us and that we love them for them, then they will be well parented!

PushyDad, you should take it as a compliment that Asians are stereotyped in this way. My son's best friends are from Korea and China and I wish my son had one ounce of their work ethic and drive. DS is very bright and his friends initially befriended him because of this and they admired his abilities. How often does that happen amongst British peers?
I think Oriental Asians in particular can see the bigger picture and know what to do guide their kids from an earlier age. With my children I have made so many errors academically but especially musically and if i had the chance to do it all again then I'd probably take notes from my Chinese friends. Just look at how ethnically diverse your child's school is and how white the unselective one is in the area.

thanks Abitwobblynow , that was nice. I really do have to check myself as my natural thing is to push myself... I am the only person I know who had "works too hard" on her school reports.

I don't know why, I think I would have been happy living in China. I think my dd is a bit the same, the piano teacher says she is "like an Asian" (and PushyDad that is a compliment).

I don't think my ds is though. I bought him a little rake so he could help in the garden but instead he just dragged a beanbag outside and said he'd sit and watch me work.

There is a famous Chinese proverb which says 'wealth doesn't pass 3 generations',which to me means as each generations gets richer then the next one is more indulged and lose the 'hunger' and drive to succeed. I think the Chinese are more aware of this and so understand the need to push their dc to work so they are to be successful in their own right.

PushyDad, I agree -- even the Tiger Mom said she doesn't think it's a Chinese 'thing' and cited examples of Ghanaian, Irish, Pakistani, etc., parents she knew who were equally interested in their children's education. I suppose I would be one of the Irish variety (and I also think I have heard that old proverb in Ireland).

I think it's easier to do things your own way if you are not a member of the majority wherever you are bringing up your children. People expect you to be a bit different and sometimes you stick out like a sore thumb no matter how hard you try to fit in. You might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.

I'm more than a bit at the idea that a stereotype is ever ok though. All very well and mighty fine when it seems complimentary, but stereotyping is a double edged sword.

Abitwobbly I agree -- interest and involvement are key.

I'm not offended by the stereotypes since they are mostly positive. I'm just making the point that it is an inaccurate generalisation.

Take the one about each generation beind more hungry for success than the last one. My father's generation worked 364 days a year building up the business. The sons and daughters just want a 'normal' 9-5 life where they can play football with mates etc.

Oop north the saying goes 'cloggs to sloggs in three generations.'

Like Tiger Mom said, not on my watch it won't

wordfactory

I make no apology for drilling it into DS that unless he works hard, he won't be successful. He is the laziest 12 y.o. boy imaginable, but with a good kick up the jacksy from me and DH, he is top 3 in his class and on track for a scholarship at 13 (whether we take that up or not is another matter as the state uppers near me are excellent).

I don't do pushy in terms of the social climbing side of things, I've got no interest in that, just encourage him to try his best at all times and be true to himself - no doing stupid things to fit it with the crowd etc.

I wish he had more of a work-ethic of his own, but I am sure, given his parents, it will come in due course.

I think I might be defined as pushy. Academically only. I think their education is one of the most important things we can give a child and if I have to get behind them and chivvy them a bit for it, then I'll do it. Currently chivvying and bribing and cajoling our way to entrance exams right now. Some days good, some I have to be really firm but I'm hoping to instill a good work ethic. And to do that you have to be very firm.