Page 5 | Saint albans boys v haberdashers boys

bulletpoint · 2011-12-02T20:58:22+00:00

does anyone have any experience of these schools ? And would they be a good second choice to harrow school ?

happygardening · 14/12/2011 17:50

God I might agree with you; don't get carried away only a bit!

It is a very serious school and I always feel an intellectual powerhouse rather than just an academic hothouse if that makes sense. We were recommended it by my DS's prep because of this but I suspect some boys find this hard and perhaps want a bit more fun. Its horses for course horses MrsJ.

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 14/12/2011 17:54

It's almost as though people have spent so long telling Wykehamists how sage and intellectual they are, that they actually believe that's their job in life. They lack spontaneity, and are reticent characters, which is very odd in boys as they are naturally very jovial, except for about a year at around 15 when they are most peculiar. Sorry if you don't agree and it is entirely possible the men I know in their 40s and early 50s are not typical of what the school turns out today.

Anyway, I must go and get ready for the school carol concert in the Abbey.

TheMead · 14/12/2011 19:05

Many thanks for assuring, HG.

In fact, I had similar thoughts as MrsJ about those schools until I visit them; Boys seemed too serious and pressured from tradition. My view was no more than tourists' mind, i.e. outsiders, with some hearsays. Talking to house masters and seeing boy's living area and classes, gave me real feeling of the schools that even my close friends or parents could not understand with words. As some say, those schools have not very good open days and only open for those who will send their DS to them. I liked the Toy system with near 1:1 tutoring in WinCol and also liked private room for both privacy and responsibility (no dedicated prep time) in Eton. After all, boys are boys - some are tidy and well organised, and others are messy with smelly socks everywhere.

Both offered even wider optional extracurricular activities than any other schools that I know of, and boys were so busy catching up as many opportunities as possible with their free will. To me, busy-ness is good, especially for adolescent boys, in terms of exploring many and find their interests before joining the real world.

I'm sure other well-known schools would offer the similar, if not the same. The point I want to make is that those schools are not just about tradition and seriousness.

happygardening · 15/12/2011 01:28

It all depends what you mean by tradition and seriousness.
Win Coll is certainly a very serious school in that it is very much aimed at the intellectual. The boys are also expected to work very very hard and lessons are taken very seriously indeed. Dont underestimate how academic this school is I feel the pressure on the boys to do well is immense, the day is also very structured. They do have dedictaed prep time and there is little free time and I suppose some may feel its not fun.
I'm not sure what you mean by tradition; Win Coll has its own terminology, and obvioulsy celebrates various events through out the year.
You made me wonder if outsiders would consider my son a serious person; he is certainly a little reserved with those he doesn't know/like; different from shy as he chooses to keep his distance (this is how he's been since an early age so we cant blame that one on Win Coll) and he's a very deep thinker thinking very carefully before speaking again a long standing personality trait. His prep school considered him very intellecual and not one to push himself forward and he certainly doesn't blow his own trumpet. But he's not "joyless" infact he's a very happy person and very happy there so I suppose he's perfect for it.

nokissymum · 15/12/2011 08:46

Oundle sounds like the co ed answer to Win, although happy's description of "very serious school" makes one to think it might be just a little too serious.

I know a couple of boys that went, there, i'd hesitate to say they contributed much to the "intellectual powerhouse" but bright boys all the same.

TheMead · 15/12/2011 10:24

I'd take HG's "seriousness" as "sensible', where as mine was as 'dull'. Also, tradition can be give an impression as 'not cool'.

happygardening · 15/12/2011 10:33

Yes I suppose he's is very sensible or to use another favourite word; mature (groan). Whats really weird is that the rest of us are none of these things we are cheerful chatty and very outgoing. There was this moment when he was born when we went one way and he went the other....

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 15/12/2011 11:05

Interestingly, there's no such thing as a St Albans 'type'. I like its scruffiness and unwillingness to impose a set personality on its pupils or attract only a certain 'type'. The boys are all decent but other than that they don't necessarily share a thing in common.

My son at uni says he finds many of the Indy educated boys (esp ex-boarders) not that good at mixing-in (he says this isn't true at all of the girls). Perhaps those boys have learnt to become very self-sufficient and perhaps the excitement of living away from home aged 18 is a bit pfffft when you left home age 9.

Colleger · 15/12/2011 11:40

Well that is another ludicrous statement. Most of the societies are formed or run by inde students as they are not a rabbit in headlights entering uni. I think every child should board before uni. May stop them spending every evening out on the lash.

Win Coll has a number of different boys. The thing about Win is that they are not averse to taking on an odd ball, a boy with Aspergers, one that may have few social skills. They feel they can work with such a child and when a child has been bullied or doesn't fit in at prep school then it would be the first place they would look for senior. That's not to say the school is full of them but it may be the only school advised for certain boys. DS has none of these issues and would thrive at Win Coll. Unfortunately there does not seem to be a similar school that is less selective. There are plenty of bright odd balls who wouldn't get into Winchester but need such an environment.

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 15/12/2011 12:38

Colleger - Going out on the lash is part of the bonding experience. My son has 9-5 lectures 4 days and 9-12 lectures on the fifth day. He's been out (on the lash, singing in the medics' choir, playing rugby (medics team), hockey (uni first team), running with the uni running club, rehearsing for the medics' drama soc Christmas play, joined a band) a lot but he's yet to miss a lecture. Day boys (Indy and state) know how to handle free time, they've been honing their socialising and studying skills for a while. When boarders go home thy have no friends.

happygardening · 15/12/2011 14:29

MrsJ now you going to slag off boarding schools as well but I seem to recall that on an earlier post you suggested it to your DS. I can't decide if you either enjoy saying the opposite about whatever others say or just like to pontificate.

Colleger · 15/12/2011 14:46

When I was at uni, the most successful students were those that had boarded. They were sensible, knew how to have a good time but not take it too far and could manage their time perfectly well. So you can only bond if you're a drinker then?

happygardening · 15/12/2011 15:09

As a very recent university student I was pleasantly surprised at how charming friendly and accepting all my fellow students were despite that fact that I must have looked to them like a dinosaur. But shocked at how ill prepared many were for working with others in groups, listen to the views of others, using their own initiative and the boys in particular found it very difficult to prioritise work over fun when needed. None were from boarding schools. I hope that if and when my DS goes to uni he will have learnt from Win Coll all these skills. Although I do worry that he won't be able to boil the proverbial egg. Win Coll is not big on all of that sort of thing!

Colleger · 15/12/2011 15:15

You see HG, if you'd sent him to Eton he would have got cooking lessons and in the six form they can have a pint with a meal! ;)

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 15/12/2011 15:20

Hg - I asked him if HE would like to board. He wouldn't. I don't want him to board but I don't presume to make choices for my almost adult children. I'm just pontificating really. I'm not slagging off (horrible term) boarding schools. I'm just passing on DS1's observations. He's not anti boarding school either btw so I'm certain his observations aren't motivated by prejudice. Anyway, it's a small sample in one hall of residence at one university, so v possibly not representative.

Colleger - Successful students? Successful in what way? Of course it isn't necessary to be a drinker, but it is necessary to socialise with others.

Colleger - Is your son at Eton yet or is he still at Purcell or somewhere else? Ds2's best friend was his bf at (state) primary. I can't imagine why anyone would keep chopping and changing schools. Although perhaps given your son did his GCSE Maths and A level chemistry at age 5, perhaps it's been difficult to place him anywhere. That sort of level isn't just bright it's savant. My children are exceptional people without exceptional talent.

Colleger · 15/12/2011 15:44

I have more than one child MrsJ. Eton boy is not Purcell boy!

crystalglasses · 15/12/2011 15:59

Never get involved in the public/independent/state school debate. Everyone holds entrenched positions and it turns into a mudslinging, chipontheshoulder type conversation.

wordfactory · 15/12/2011 16:06

I duon't know I've found the thread very interesting tbh.

Our HT was adamant that DS was an Eton boy. And a visit told us it would have been a good match. But I could not see how and why termly boarding was still in opperation. I heard everything all the usual suspects had to say and frankly was not pursuaded.

Why in the name of all things sensible can they not be flexible about this?

Original poster

bulletpoint · 15/12/2011 16:13

crystalglasses and its not even an argument debate about saint albans and haberdashers

OP posts:

wordfactory · 15/12/2011 16:22

So which way are you leaning op?
And what do you make of termly boarding?

Original poster

bulletpoint · 15/12/2011 16:34

I think more in favour of Saint albans.

re boarding, i can see the pros and cons of both full boarding and flexi, if you live not too far the from the school then i think flexi is fine, but if you dont then full termly boarding is better, so long as the majority are full boarders.

But i would prefer the public schools offered more flxebility to allow parents to take their children out at suitable times to participatemore in family get togethers etc or just for some down time.

OP posts:

grovel · 15/12/2011 16:37

The point about termly boarding, I think, is that these schools have fantastic facilities and want them used. The week-ends are a good time for, say, a sporty boy to use the art schools for recreation etc.
That said, my DS was at Eton and we could have taken him home every Sunday from 11.30 until bedtime. There were two exeats every term (more as they progressed through the school) and a week at half term.

Colleger · 15/12/2011 16:37

10 weeks in the summer holidays is more than enough down time for me!

wordfactory · 15/12/2011 16:41

Exactly my feelings.

I said to the HM at Eton that I could see no justification for their inflexibility other than 'that's how it is'.

He asked me what I'd perfer and I said boys should be able to come and go far more flexibly. That at 13 I could see DS coming home most weekends but eventually this would beocme less and less as he got older in preparaton for university. I thought this would and should be a natural progression.

He said 'I can quite see your point Mrs Wordfactory.'

Which left me puzzled to say the least.

wordfactory · 15/12/2011 16:42

Sorry that was to bp