Tiffins 11+ tutors

[saya]

Hello,
I've been told there is a really good tutor preparing children to Tiffin 11+ exam, her name is Mrs.W...I would be grateful if anybody who knows how to contact her can share it with me..Many Thanks

Breadandbutterfly I say hear, hear to you.... As a family who have tutored DS (who's not doing Tiffin test today) and thus far he has passed the two 11+ exams he has taken, I am increasingly disillusioned by all the parents just throwing money at tutoring. I think that unless one's education falls way short of decent, one is more than capable of doing it oneself.

There appears to be some great,misplaced kudos in being able to brag about having a tutor for one's child as if that somehow makes one's child superior.

In DS's primary school four (two girls, two boys) have thus far passed the two 11+ exams they've taken - only one has been taught by a tutor because she was not really of the right standard to start with. The others have educated, but not necessarily rich parents. It is very achievable and any parent who tries to delude you that a tutor is necessary is spin doctoring....

Couldn't agree more with breadandbutterfly and gaazlw.

The majority of ds's class have tutors and I know most of them just ain't gonna make it. All very sad really.

There still seems to be this myth that tutors know tricks to pass. Well, frankly they don't. DS just took Tiffin exam today and there were no surprises wotsoever.

DS also sat tiffin today - I absolutely think that tutoring would have been pissing money up a wall. Do some practice including trying out full papers definitely. But parents who are paying through the nose for tutors, are having their understandable anxiety over schools taken advantage of in my opinion - it is just not worth it, and giving their kids no advantage despite all the hype.

It never ceases to amaze me how intolerant some people on MN are of other people's choices.

How about people using tutors because they don't feel confident about being the best person to help their child? Who but the parent is best placed to make that decision? How about using a tutor because you don't want preparing for an exam to become an issue between parent and child - in effect keeping any stress out of the family relationship.

There are all sorts of reasons for using a tutor or not. Why can't people accept that it's individual choice and leave it at that .

I agree that there is a significant amount of hype about certain tutors and it is a shame that some parents feel coerced into using a tutor as a result of that hype. However, some of us are not naive about the process and still prefer to use a tutor. I would never criticise someone for "going it alone" and wonder why others chose to criticize those who make a different choice.

Good luck to all of you whose DC sat exams today - whether you used a tutor or not

But I totally understand why people choose to use tutors - I was very tempted to myself. The only people I'm criticising (I hope) are those that make parents feel that without a tutor they are doing their kids a disservice, possibly encouraging them to do something they can ill-afford. In my cack-handed way I am trying to be supportive! I know one parent who was so convinced that a tutor was necessary that she didn't let her very bright DS sit an 11+, thinking he had no chance because she hadn't been able to afford tutoring. I just wanted to add my opinion to counter what I see as disinformation.

On a related point, I paid for my son to sit a mock exam earlier in the year and only wish I had sought advice from friendly mumsnetters which could have saved me that wasted money and effort. Sorry if I'm coming across as intolerant.

I don't need to be intolerant but it's not necessary that's what we are saying. Save your money and spend it on something that enhances your son's education in other ways...trips to the theatre etc....

If you need a tutor you need to ask yourself if your DC is suited to selective education. Getting in is only the start-they then have to keep up for the next 7yrs.

I think people use tutors because a) everyone else does and no one wants to put their child at a disadvantage, b) there is a mystique around what they need to know to pass these exams and the fear is that without a professional tutor's expertise they might miss something and c) trying to teach your own DC can be a bloody nightmare. I speak obviously from personal experience - but having said that, I don't know if I'd go down the same route again. I agree with toutlemonde - there are definitely people out there making money out of parents' anxiety.

I disagree with exoticfruits on this - if we are aiming for selective education for our children, its because we think its better and want what is best for our kids. If we can offer any help and advantage to our DC to get them there, we will do it - whether or not other parents think its unfair, or that the children will struggle to keep up. Keeping up is a question for afterwards once the hurdle of getting in is passed (and the school will help). What I was debating, is whether tutoring in particular actually offers an advantage.

I've heard lots of parents on here and 11+ forum arguing that if you don't have the natural talent and need tutors or whatever, that you shouldn't be applying. I always think it seems like they are trying to discourage applications to these popular schools to clear the way for their own children and am unconvinced!

if we are aiming for selective education for our children

Are they aiming though-is this something they really want or something the parent has decided-in many cases at birth before they have a clue what sort of DC they have.
Selective education is for the very bright and most DCs are average (even MN ones) .
They should find their own level and all go in cold. One practise paper and then in-that would sort them.
Unfortunately they can't devise a fair system that cuts out the pushy parent and therefore-although I disagree strongly-I will admit they probably need one if everyone else does. However if I was Head of an independent selective school and had an absolute free choice of pupils I would first dismiss all those who had been tutored at an interview stage.

I understand what you're saying exotic but its not something that can be made fair one family at a time, by our choices.

I think it would be possible for schools to make the system for their entry fairer - yes perhaps by saying tutoring is considered cheating and a reason for non-selection, or by making their exams unpredictable and letting prospective applicants know this is the case. Back to the tiffin example (sorry) - there's nothing to stop the school setting a completely different test, using a different exam board, etc to get rid of the advantages of having learnt to the test.

I think your other point about whether children or parents have chosen - hmmm, I make lots of choices for my DS in his best interests I hope. There is a reason the parents have to do the school applications rather than the 10 year olds. You're talking about independents too rather than grammars - now there's a system that was never designed to be fair to all...

None of it is fair so I can't blame people for not getting 'left behind'.

I do however think that there are a lot more parents who want their DC to have a selective education than there are DCs suited to it!

I know many bright and some above average and very very hardworking over pushed who have been to Tiffin tutors including the ones mentioned. A relative got in with minimum tutoring, finding the pace absolutely fine and the sport disappointingly poor - the school particularly attracts very pushed maths types and they get great results in maths and sciences but less and less are getting in from Kingston as over tutored come from far and wide to get in. If you are a bright child from a suportive family don't think of Tiffin as the be all and end all, interestingly many rejects get equally good results, if not better when it comes to the all important GSCEs and A Levels. You can buy examples of the verbal and non verbal papers in Smiths, test your child at home, if they 80% without any tutoring then go for it, and sign up for a tutor, but only if you and they can cope with a no - at least 12 tutored children apply for every place.

I am well eductated and more than capable of helping my DC. There are, however, 2 things that might (but only might) cause me to use a tutor:

1. I work full time so evening and weekend time with the DC is precious. I would consider a tutor for the same reasons that I have a cleaner (i.e. to cover things that I am a bit short of time to do).

1. Some DCs do not respond that well to parental "help".

I would only ever use a tutor (or indeed tutor myself) to assist in familiairy with format/questions - as I understand it speed is all important in the Tiffin test and familiarity definitely helps with this. I woudl not do it to try to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Re the comment that they should not need tutoring if they are clever enough, I think that is only true to a certain extent. Lets say there are 100 places at Tiffin and 1000 sit. There may be around 50 "dead certs" and perhaps another 150 with not that much between them all of whom would be more than capable of keeping up if they got in. I think parents panic that if their child is around 90 in natural ability, they could easily be leapfrogged by the child at 105 who gets some tutoring (and that child would easily be able to keep up at the school because there is not that much difference between 105 and 85). If that makes sense!

I dont think there is kudos in having a tutor - if anything there tends to be more boasting in a child getting in without a tutor than in a child having a tutor.

The boasting starts when child passes the assessment test that some tutors use to decide whether or not they will tutor that child.

But then who knows how much tutoring the child has already had in order to pass the initial assessment test to be tutored...

The sooner Tiffin gets a catchment area the better

The only way that I agree with selective schools is NOT to have a catchment area and take the very best from a wide area.

Nah, the very best from the local area should get the first places, then select from a wider area if necessary

Like NonSuch do

As long as they can travel. It is unfair to miss an excellent high flyer because they live further away. A selective school is just that-selective-of the best.

Devil's advocate here: what would you think if Oxford or Cambridge decided to have a catchment area, after sustained pressure from the locals of either area?

If it was purely Oxford or Cambridge tax payers paying for the school I woudl agree on a catchment area

Kingston tax payers fund Tiffin and any Tom Dick or Harriet can come from WHEREVER if they pass the test

OK Cyb, thought I probably hadn't thought that one through...

Only if they come out top. The school want the very best.
I have no objection to selective schools if they don't have a catchment area and just pick out the exceptionally gifted. I object if they have a catchment area and have a line where the DC who gets in has one mark more than the one who didn't.

Sorry-the Tom, Dick or Harry who come top-not any Tom, Dick or Harry.

Ultimately - and I know very little about Tiffin as such - if your dc is bright enough they will thrive in any good school, and I understand that there are several in the vicinity of Tiffin. So chill, really. I daresay it's a lovely school, but it's not unique.

Astonished and rather concerned to hear the suggestion that people might pre-tutor a child to pass the tutor's entry tests!