How hard up have/would you make yourself to pay for private education?

[eatingdust]

Have namechanged as I'm danger of outing myself on this subject. Long, so please bear with me!

Dd is a high-achieving sports player currently in a comprehensive, who has the chance of a scholarship to a private sixth form which would undoubtedly improve her sporting success no end as well as improving her academic achievements and help her with her career.

If she went to the school in question, it would also bring a lot of relief to dh and myself (both working ft) as we currently drive hundreds of miles a week to take her to training and competitions.

She's probably not going to be a top world-class athlete, but could go quite a long way and the private school could provide more or less everything she'd need in one place. She's very keen to go there and if money was no object, that's where she would be going.

We do have a comfortable income and I suspect this means she would likely to be eligible for only a basic scholarship. (btw anyone know what income level would be considered for a means-tested bursary?).

Me and dh are now in our 50s and working in a quite insecure, youth-dominated industry, so have been overpaying the mortgage for a few years to give us a bit more security as there's a fair chance we'll be made redundant by our mid to late 50s and not able to earn so much if that happened (even with age discrimination laws, this is still likely to be the case, but we would receive decent redundancy payouts which, currently, would pay off the remaining mortgage).

We also have an older dd who is in her first year at uni and we're paying her accommodation - currently about £5k a year, hopefully a bit less in future years when she lives out. She has the full loan for fees and tuition.

Anyway, the bottom line is, on paper we have the income to do this, but as dh puts it, we'd either need to be "eating dust" to send dd2 to this school, or we would have to release equity from the house and wipe out a big chunk of our mortgage overpayments.

We?re talking about no holidays, no eating out, gym membership would have go, limited new clothes. Not the end of the world and it would be for two years, but still a major lifestyle change which dd herself would have to buy into too.

Interested in your thoughts - wwyd or whyd if you've been in similar circumstances?

I have done it. My two youngest get generous bursaries to their school, but still, every month I am now scraping around desperate incase we run out of money before we run out of month. There is just no surplus any more - God knows how we are going to afford anything for Christmas this year. The children have already been told that Father Christmas is feeling the pinch and will be delivering less this year. We have had to stop everything except the bare essentials. We hope, though, that in 2 years time I will be able to get a "proper job" and our finances will ease considerably.

However - do I regret it? In a lot of ways, yes. With no school fees we would have an extra £500 a month, and that would make life considerably less stressful. On the other hand I am SO pleased with their education at the moment. They really are coming on enormously well, and my youngest has settled considerably - due predominately to now being in a class of 15 instead of 31 I think. So if I had to make the decision again, knowing what I do now, then I think I would still make the same decision. We'll have time for holidays etc later.

You need to do a proper cash flow over the next two years, because you will have one at Uni, one at private schoool, then presumably the one at school will go to uni.
How much would you save in petrol? And would the school really save you that much running around and petrol?
Unless she is going to be a professional athlete, supporting the sport is really supporting a hobby. Focus on the educatiobnal benefits.

Many thanks for your thoughts so far.

It would be a bit more than supporting a hobby.. The sport has given her great focus in other areas of her life, but that is a good way of putting it.
The school fees would be way more than the cost of fuel and coaching is currently.
We had already been thinking of an alternative sixth form, possibly a much cheaper (but good) private day school as her current school lacks aspiration and isn't so strong in the subjects she wants to study at A'level. The boarding school she has applied to would provide everything in one place though, while we would still have the running around if she was a day pupil locally.

Grateful for lots of other perspectives..but back to being a wage slave for rest of afternoon now.

It's only for two years. (though have you saved at all for her university?)

Each school is individual in how much they offer in bursaries. In my area, the highest achieving school (academically- top 10 in England, usually in top 5) offers 100% bursaries to families on less than £20k with a sliding scale up to income of c.£70k (and makes allowances for funding other dependents etc)

We did without a lot to put our children through private school. It always wound me up when people said "You're so lucky you can afford it" when they had new cars, holidays, meals out, etc which we didn't.

We have no regrets as DCs are both doing well and we feel we gave them the best chance possible

I'd do a cashflow and cut out stuff which you don't need - changes of cars where they are in good repair and holidays.

Personally, I would give up a lot of extras to do what you suggest but I would never put home or basic standard of living at risk. A cashflow could show me that.

Do it.

Best thing we ever did. It's hard, and agree with timidviper about comments. If you look very closely at your outgoings, I'm sure you can cut a few things down.

Seeing my ds SO happy at school is worth an awful lot to me.

Check with the school about means tested bursaries. They vary enormously in what they offer, and from what you say even a smallish % deduction would help. I have never regretted making myself poor in order to pay school fees.

Thanks. I think a big part of our dilemma is that she is very happy where she is and doing ok academically .. Dd1 had 3as and a B at A'level there ( in subjects the school is good at), and is now at a Russell Group uni and loving it.

So we would need to thoroughly analyse cost against extra benefit... We can and do make up for the present school's academic deficiencies via private tutoring, but it would be great to hand a lot of that over to professionals with a lot more experience of education, sport and career development/university... Me and dh are exhausted with the effort we put in on top.

And we haven't saved specifically for either dd at university, have been paying off the mortgage instead, but we take the view that university debt is theirs' to pay off when they start work and we will help them as much as we can.

Dd1's accommodation is easily affordable, but potential private school fees is something we hadn't planned for.

Thanks for all the comments, it's extremely helpful.

How hard up have/would you make yourself to pay for private education?

No more hard up than for a good state-funded education suitable for DC's talents.

We were happy with our PFB choice, and were lucky that it was fully funded. Now we realize that this is no better, in any sense, than for our PSB and PTB etc. But it may have been different if their choices were not safe or able to provide an all round education. With the benefit of hindsight, PFB's state option was actually gold dust, but what you don't know you don't miss. With the others we knew what we might be missing and it was either nothing of enduring worth or quite positive to avoid.

It also means we'll all emerge footloose and debt free when university is over in fifteen years' time. And no need for a spreadsheet to tell us that one either.

We get a large bursary income and currently have an just shy of £80k + but school fees £31k + wages heavily in favour of husband (over 2/3s) so he pays lots of tax, one DS at home but no other dependents. So bursaries aren't just for the very poor. But they will take into consideration your assets including money in property. Your concern about the future is unlikely to cut much ice I'm afraid we could all say the same thing the bottom line: how badly do you want this, how much are you prepared to sacrifice for this education. Also things like petrol etc aren't taken into consideration when you apply we live in rural community and both travel between 50 and 100 miles a day back and forth to work we have a large petrol bill. We have no savings no pension and don't own a house and have been paying between £1000 and £1500 a month for 6 years (a long 6 years but only 5 to go yippee).
Do we "eat dust" no we shop in waitrose/Ocado although no vices; fags and booze, but we do buy lots organic/fartrade food and the occasional luxury dessert. We don't eat out even on special occasions or go to the theatre/opera etc anymore although we do like the cinema. Im not dressed in Primark clothes or designer labels just M and S Whitestuff etc the cheaper end and buy in sales also I don't buy but lots of clothes or for example I buy one pair of expensive boots and they last for years. We have cheap holidays; camping etc never spending more than £1000 (a family of four) and only one a year we don't eat out when on holiday either. Our cars are reliable but combined value £4000. We manage just.
Its the unexpected that causes the problems dentist, vet bills, work Xmas parties (£70 I don't know how I got talked into that!) new tyres (how much? its a clio not a Aston Martin).
Is it worth it? The sixty four million dollar question or in out case the £1500 question. Currently I would say yes it is. My DS2 is very happy in a one of the most selective schools in the UK he's stimulated and doing well not just academically but in all ways. In the past when he was at prep school I was less convinced.
My big piece of advice eatingdust beware does this school do what it claims if your motivation is primarily to improve her sporting success you need to be absolutely sure the school can deliver the goods there going to tell you it will but do you have concrete proof?

AS you can see my occupation is not proof reading meant to say:
"We get a large bursary income currently just shy of £80k +"

For 2 years, I'd say do it. I wouldn't hold out hope for a bursary though - in DC's school they won;t give a bursary to anyone who can use equity in home to fund the costs, let alone looking at income levels.

"We?re talking about no holidays, no eating out, gym membership would have go, limited new clothes. "

That's how we live anyway! Well not "no holidays", we do have one once a year, but many of our friends seem to go away most half terms, often for expensive trips like ski-ing. Eating out is a rare treat (once a year maybe) and then I always think "How much did that cost?"

Anyway, it sounds like it's only the luxuries that would go, you wouldn't be struggling, and I think 2 years of tightening your belts is nothing.

Hi stopraining, you're right.. It would be luxuries. But hard to suddenly give those up when we're so used to them.
Middleclassonbursary.. Our situation in terms of income is similar to yours, except we are within sight of owning our house outright.

May I ask how much dialogue you had with the school about your situation? Did you just fill in the forms and see what happened, or did you talk it through with them first? I'd be quite happy to have a frank discussion with the bursar and if the minimum scholarship is all we could expect, not bother with all the form filling but think long and hard about how worthwhile it would be for us as a family.

Dd2 is old enough to be involved in a lot of this..she enjoys a few weeks in the sun and occasional ski-ing, so would also have to make sacrifices. I do worry about her not fitting in with those on much higher incomes, even though we are very far from poor.

Schoolhelp - much of what you say very much chimes with the way I'm thinking too!! The reality is, dd2 will do just fine if she doesn't go there, so I think we really have to decide what the advantages would be in reality and how much we would really be prepared to give up.

Hum, my DCs are at private school so I start from that point....

Are you really sure that you wouldnt still need to pay for coaching and fuel to meets etc etc. I'm sure there would be some cost savings but do you really feel that the school has as good coaching as her club? At my DDs' school, most of the sporty girls still go to their athletics clubs/swim clubs/sailing clubs etc. And at my son's school, all the boys still belong their local rubgy and cricket clubs.

I just point this out because you might want to think carefully about giving up good club positions for school coaching - especially as the holidays are long and there'll be a good few weeks of the year with not competitions and no activity.

We didn't discuss it first just submitted the form but the big difference is that we didn't have equity in a house only £150 in saving account (I jest not). IMHO and very experienced opinion you will not get one if you've nearly paid of your mortgage. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this but the bottom line is that bursaries are meant for people who don't have the money, not people who have the money and don't want to spend it. This is why so many post on MM complaining they didn't get one. The form asks you about your assets ours including cars; £6000 maybe £6500 if you and in our washing machine (its a Miele) we have nothing to sell nothing to raise money against. OK we have a good income but not enough to afford £31000 a year.
I too would look at look at local clubs for her coaching if this is your only motivation for considering an independent school, even if your only looking at a day school its must be £17000 a year surely there must be another club fairly locally or private coaching that wont cost you any where that much especially as you say she's not going to be a world class athlete. Its also easy to forget that they are only at school about 31 weeks a year. My DS fences he's good and can fence at his boarding school three times a week but we still send him on fencing courses in the holidays (not organised by the school) and in the long summer holiday, nearly 9 weeks, he's a member of a local club so he can keep practising.

80k plus? I wish!! Some of the fees mentioned on this thread are way more than my hubby's yearly wage and I've got to keep 5 of us on that!! Wake up people if you want to send your little darlings to private school then feel free to do so, if you've got to tighten your belt for a couple of years then well that's what you got to do!! How badly do you want them to go into private education, and yes bursaries are for those who can't afford the fees etc, not just those who don't want to pay. If you want to come into the real world for a while - I'm a full time carer and yes I get carers allowance - it works out at 32 pence per hour this is for full time 24/7 - you don't get any holidays, never had a holiday of any kind for at least 12 years. I NEED a car to get my dd to and from hospital appointments, surgeons etc, you got to sort out your priorities in life - it's only for two years, if you want it badly enough but you had better be damn sure that they deliver at the end of it - but good luck anyway!!

Stoprainingplease...agree with you on that one....no holidays - yep last one was about 12 years ago before my dd began surgeries, gym membership - nah - too busy!! Couldn't afford it anyhow...eating out - what's that? Limited new clothes - er yep!! Word of caution though .. agree with the possibility of not fitting in with those on higher incomes having said that - bet she is as good as anyone else in your eyes, anyone disagrees well just tell them to take a hike!! If they want to try and be jumped up snobs I wouldn't want to have them as friends anyway!! If you can't be yourself then well....but you learn that as you get older don't you?

I'm sorry for your difficulties but that was not the point of the OP I do so hope this does not degenerate into another anti independent school/I've got no money tirade. eatingdust asked a genuine question and we should try and answer in considered and appropriate answer.

Bossboggle - I'm fully aware that lots of people, like yourself, struggle to afford the basics and I'm conscious ours' is an incredibly indulgent dilemma to have. I was lucky to have a good enough state education, free degree (long before fees) and some lucky breaks which have led us to the income level we're on.

However, this is our dilemma and we want to do our best for the entire family, so it's great to have this forum to compare notes from those with direct experience.

Middleclassonbursary & gettingalifenow - your comments are very, very helpful. Ironically dd2 is getting the best support she's had so far via the club that she goes to at the moment.. my budget planner includes the support she would still need when not at school.

I went to a private school my mum scrimped and saved to afford it. It was the worst time of my life they all had massive houses etc and we had nothing, and boy was I looked down on. There is no way my DS would go. Really its only saving you a job leave her where she is.

Book lovely holidays you will never get the time back. You do not have to go to a private school to do well.

I get what we need and my ds has a good education and I hope he will go on to do his A levels and then possibly uni who knows? I had a good grammar education too, to be honest if you can afford it then go for it - my
dd is disabled and achieves things every day, just small things so I have got them at both ends of the spectrum - but I suppose because of that I would say if you can - go for it!! Education is valuable, one of the most valuable tools you have, you want to give your children the best and only you can decide what that is!! Good luck anyway which ever way you choose, if your children are healthy and happy then that goes a long, long, long way!!

For one DC for sixthform,yes.
For the whole of secondary for two DDs when it would have meant no treats, holidays etc for them as well, no!
We did no extras to pay two morgages when DD was a baby for six months, it's perfectly possible. But having been in that state permanently as a child I wouldn't want to do it long term again.