How hard up have/would you make yourself to pay for private education?

[eatingdust]

Have namechanged as I'm danger of outing myself on this subject. Long, so please bear with me!

Dd is a high-achieving sports player currently in a comprehensive, who has the chance of a scholarship to a private sixth form which would undoubtedly improve her sporting success no end as well as improving her academic achievements and help her with her career.

If she went to the school in question, it would also bring a lot of relief to dh and myself (both working ft) as we currently drive hundreds of miles a week to take her to training and competitions.

She's probably not going to be a top world-class athlete, but could go quite a long way and the private school could provide more or less everything she'd need in one place. She's very keen to go there and if money was no object, that's where she would be going.

We do have a comfortable income and I suspect this means she would likely to be eligible for only a basic scholarship. (btw anyone know what income level would be considered for a means-tested bursary?).

Me and dh are now in our 50s and working in a quite insecure, youth-dominated industry, so have been overpaying the mortgage for a few years to give us a bit more security as there's a fair chance we'll be made redundant by our mid to late 50s and not able to earn so much if that happened (even with age discrimination laws, this is still likely to be the case, but we would receive decent redundancy payouts which, currently, would pay off the remaining mortgage).

We also have an older dd who is in her first year at uni and we're paying her accommodation - currently about £5k a year, hopefully a bit less in future years when she lives out. She has the full loan for fees and tuition.

Anyway, the bottom line is, on paper we have the income to do this, but as dh puts it, we'd either need to be "eating dust" to send dd2 to this school, or we would have to release equity from the house and wipe out a big chunk of our mortgage overpayments.

We?re talking about no holidays, no eating out, gym membership would have go, limited new clothes. Not the end of the world and it would be for two years, but still a major lifestyle change which dd herself would have to buy into too.

Interested in your thoughts - wwyd or whyd if you've been in similar circumstances?

What is this sport your DD does? If she's doing so well at her local club in what way will it be better at the independent school? There are few sports that I would have thought would be better catered for at an independent school than at an excellent specialised club. Horses maybe; top eventers need really good facilities and riders need time to exercise them, rowing if your miles from suitable river, fives and rackets are very restricted to independent schools. Are the coaches known to be better at this school, will she be training against others who are on the same level she is? Also if she does not attend her local club as much will she fall of their radar and loose her place in a team?
Remember independent schools are very results driven your DD may be under a more pressure to do well in her A levels and may find that she does not have as much time to practice as you think.

Just depends what your priorities are. Maybe I should have said in my earlier post that all the things the OP mentions as giving up seem to me like real luxuries, but we do have 2 kids at private secondary school and a pony. But it's horses for courses, if you like, I couldn't justify us all eating out at a nice restaurant every week as it seems extravagant, but that's about what the horse costs us...

Hello happygardening. I'd rather not reveal what the sport is so as to protect our identities, but the advantage at the independent school would be that the specialised facilities she needs would be on site - we currently spend many hours on the road (when she could be watching Hollyoaks and X Factor doing schoolwork!)

All the points you make, especlally about checking the standard of coaching (and sporting achievement of other pupils), are very valid, and something we really do need to scrutinise.

She would still retain her county/national eligibility - a number of her fellow competitors are already at boarding schools in order to further their sport, and the particular school we're looking at is not hugely selective (although if we're forking out so much money, we would expect her to come out with the best results possible, at least up to the standard her sister achieved in the state system).

Although I joke about it, in fact the tv watching (and FB use) is something I hope a boarding school would help tackle - as dh and I return from work later than she's home from school, it's difficult to know that she's knuckling down to work before going off training (although her progress for GCSEs is ok, she does need to step it as she prepares for public exams, which means a lot more focus).

I'll be using this entire thread as an aide memoire when we find out how much we would need to pay, as all the contributions here are enormously helpful, many thanks.

Beware the level of supervision varies at boarding schools. Particularly for older children. My DS is exceedingly supervised at his school but friends children are less supervised. TV's computer games and just general flopping around with you friends happen as much in boarding schools as they do at home. Remember the ratio of staff to children in a boarding house is much less than it would be at home and most older children study in their own rooms and the younger ones usually get more supervision. Your DD may also find the change in teaching style, lesson structure strange and she may find it takes a while for her to settle and thus take her eye of sport.
Will she be expected to do a main sport? Most boarding schools have a sport they pursue for term I think for girls its hockey now, netball next term then rounders in the summer and everyone has to do it a couple of times a week this could be instead of doing her chosen sport although some schools are more flexible and will let you do what you want. Find out before you start, look at lesson structure can you daughter sit in a few lessons and see if she likes the teaching style; a friend moved his son from an excellent comp to one of the countries top grammars he lasted it six months and went back to his old school he hated the traditional teaching. My son likes to two sports and was planning to do both when he went to his new boarding school but they take place on the same day he had to choose check out this kind of things as well. I'm not saying don't do it but boarding schools are not always the solution to a problem all schools will tell you they're wonderful they want your money don't ever forget that but the devil is in the detail ask ask ask!

Several aspects here have echoes with quite recent observations. DC1's school had a gifted child who totally neglected their sport for computer games and got clinically depressed. School didn't even register the neglect and depression, despite child apparently talking to their tutor, test results were always great, it was a really sad/scary case.

I think if you have a child that is more average, or less exceptional, there's less risk of this sort of thing, but exceptional children can be more tricky to guide, so boarding can be a higher risk. This is about the child's welfare over the academics/ other gifts.

It's sometimes hard to judge whether what you're getting is what you think you're buying. Non-specialist schools, despite what they say, are never going to be committed to a non-core activity, i.e. all round performance. World-class performers attain their form despite, not through, attending generalist schools. Would DD be happy to refocus on the academics, are you sure she's ready to steer away from chasing the top world-class level in her sport?

Oh my lord! Before you take the plunge please check and double-check what the school will fund in the way of extra-curricular, ie non-academic activitities. IME private education costs and then costs some more! The 'extras' are just that! Extras, and they cost.

Just make sure first.

Michael Johnson was recently interviewed on Desert Island Discs my DH heard it. Apparently he said the secret of his success came from inside him rather than the training facilities etc. Perhaps you should have a listen!

Some independent schools are very good at supporting sporting activities. They can ensure that all training is done and can be flexible with the inevitable time off that will be required (some state schools won't do this as absences affect ofsted ratings AFAIK).

Having DC that are at a high level with their sport, I know what a ludicrous comittment it can be. If the school can relieve you of some of it...what's not to like?

Thanks again for all your comments.. The devil is clearly in the detail, and I'm now compiling a list of things to find out.

There is a good former grammar school she could attend which has a superb record of sporting and academic success, so we are also checking that out, but we would still need to do all the running around for her training and events.

Her sport is entirely dependent on facilities, the right coaching and competitors at the right level, so we need to drill down to get the best solution for all of these...currently it is doable, but with a load of travelling.

Although being a control fanatic is not one of my many faults I know from expereince that no one is going to work as hard for your child as you are. You'll go that extra mile (literally) teachers/coaches dont just have your childs intersts to consider that have all the other children to think of as well and their parents who all think their child is extra special. Surely in a year she might be driving I know insurance is expensive but we're not talking £31K. Also its a good test of her committment is she self motivated enough to drive herself without you asking her to get to the training day etc. I rode horses obsessively till I was 40 my parents had no interest. In my late teens I used to travel for over 2 1/2 hours on three trains 2 - 3 days a week to train with an instructor who I thought was wonderful. Dont make it easy for her competing and winning at the top level is a slog with lots of ups and downs and she needs to realise this as soon as she can. You have to fight literally every inch of the way. Its not about sacrificing a dinner out or a holiday its about sacrificing everything if you've any chance of being successful.

Happygardening - you're right, no-one will do as much as we do for her, but it's wearing us out!

Driving herself will be wonderful when she's old enough, and she'd happily do that, but she's youngish in the school year, so that probably wouldn't be until she's in upper 6th. She is extremely self-motivated with regards to her sport.

I'll keep you all posted with how things go and what we eventually decide to do - she's very, very keen on going to the school in question, but realises there's an awful lot that we need to consider as a family first.

Sounds like she needs to commit to her academics as well as the sport, before you commit to a pricey school. Otherwise you could spend 62k you can ill afford on her and end up with nondescipt results. Her academic results will prob be much more important for her future. Lots of people have major talent in sport, music or whatever, but v few make a living from it, so not sensible to plan education around it.

Sounds like the coaching is ok for now. How about spending some money on an au pair type person to ferry her around to reduce the strain on you?

If dd is so desperate to go to this school, is she willing to work damn hard to get good gcse grades? And to stay where she is of she doesn't?

I've maybe given a false impression of her - she's very bright and on track to get good GCSEs - almost certainly not all A*s, but easily enough to meet, and I would sincerely hope surpass. the requirements of the independent school.

Like most teenagers I know, she has needed some encouragement to put extra effort in this year.

The application process for the new school seems to have spurred her on - her head teacher has sent off a report which has brought her to his attention a bit more, and her head of year has been helping her with the entrance tests.

So, even if she doesn't move schools, I hope it'll have been a useful process, as long as she's not too disappointed if she ends up not going there.

The au pair idea is an interesting one - I hadn't thought of that and it's another thing to consider, thanks.

If the school is somewhere like Millfield where there might be a good cohort of others of the same age competing in the same sport at the same level, there would be social as well as the other benefits on the sports side. (And indeed others pursuing other sports at a similar level.) Plus having everything on site would save a lot of time which in theory would free up time for study.

When DD was about 9 I went to a schools fair where I chatted briefly to the man from Millfield, saying that we would only be interested if our daughter really started to shine in her chosen sport. He said that sports kids came in at all ages, mainly when their parents had had enough of ferrying them around.

If the ferrying is becoming too much then a switch to a school offering high level sports at sixth form would seem a good idea. In terms of giving up luxuries for two years, time itself will be a luxury, and there are plenty of free or cheap things you can do if you are not tied to a training schedule.

The thing to watch for will be the academics. It might be all too easy, living on site, to be sucked into the sports side, plus the social life at boarding school, and lose your way academically. You might ask the school about academic achievement from the sixth formers also doing performance sports.

A lot depends on what she wants to do next. If she really wants to pursue something sporting then the chance to really focus at this point sounds great. Or if she wants to do something where it will be to her advantage to show something on her CV which shows commitment and perseverance. At this level it needs to be a family decision with her understanding what sacrifices you are making and what you expect from her.

Sixth form sounds the right stage. I have heard stories of kids choosing schools because of sport at the age of 11 and then getting injured or not progressing as they had hoped. You need to be comfortable that you are happy with the school even if the sport were to stop overnight for some reason.

eatingdust. There always have been and always will be children from all backgrounds in private schools. Some on bursaries, some on 100 percent scholarships, both of which could come from incredibly low income families.

Of course, you will get your snobs. State schools too have those with the parents with plenty of money but choosing to spend it elsewhere than on their childrens education.

If you feel that this is the right thing for your child and are prepared to cut corners financially, then go for it.

We have 2 in private, a discount for the younger one, but no financial help or scholarships, and it was the best decision we have ever made. Yes, I too have to think twice about spending, but I really don't care because I know my children are in the right school for them, and are very happy.

I don't think I would put a private education before the whole family's financial stability. If you are this anxious about your jobs, I'd make sure you have a plan in place to cover if (to look on the gloomy side) you were both made redundant today and then do the maths regarding the private school from there.

Riversidemum I agree, our financial stability is paramount. If either of us was made redundant, at least we would have decent payout - there is no direct threat to either of our jobs atm, it's just that the climate is so unstable it's making everyone jumpy. But we need to factor all of that in - a lot of number crunching to do.

We are lucky to now have a small overpayment reserve in the mortgage which I'd been hoping would allow us to help the girls more when they're young adults. If dd2 goes away, we would explain to her the school fees might well equal something towards a house deposit in the future.

Needmoresleep and MintAero- thanks for your thoughts too.

The Millfield teacher's comments are particularly relevant to our situation!

Go for it. For 2yrs you can cope financially even if you are eating dust LOL.

After all she may not get in and if she does you can then have a think. We were willing to do similar to avoid any of our going to state schools not appropriate for their abilities, fortunately they managed to get into selective schools and all is good there, but if it wasn;'t we would have done it somehow

Private education is a luxury and not essential. Not at all worth making yourself hard up for.