Private schools - what are the long term benefits?

[lme30005]

Hi
Hoping someone who has been through private schools or their DC's, can give me some insight.
I am thinking of putting my DS's name down for a private school to start in year 7, and he would be followed by his siblings. I'm trying to justify the huge costs incurred by putting them all through private education. Obviously the main benefits will be smaller class sizes, better facilities, better results hopefully. But what would the long term benefits be? Would they actually do better after school, in jobs etc? And would there be any negative things about them going private? I'm a little worried that they may not be much better off long term than going to the local very average comp.
Thanks
Louise

Well said alice

I agree about the value of care home experience too alice. The Oxford website says in terms that they fully understand that glitzy high-profile medical experience is hard to come by for a lot of students and they specifically suggest care home experience instead.

DS1 has twelve A's at GCSE, one A at A2 and is predicted another four next year so there are no issues on the academic front as far as anyone can see. But I'm worried about his lack of care home experience: he's done one week only, not because he dismisses its value but because he works one day a weekend to earn money and in the holidays too, which seriously limits his time. I'm genuinely concerned that he seems to fall short on the care home front.

That having been said, if he had the requisite connections to land a week at a top London hospital (which he emphatically does not), I think my advice would be to dumb it down and to not name names because I do think it might hinder as much as help.

I think that gaining experience in a care home would be a complete waste of time due to the fact that they are at that stage nothing more than by standers, neither use or ornament. I would be far from happy about having your year 8 attempting to handle my aged parent, or any other would be doctor.
Neither would I be queuing up to allow my child to be used as unpaid labour emptying bedpans which is realistically all they could offer.
Un-compassionate medicine students should be weeded out at interview.

I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't have a good understanding on what the job involves of course they should but quite how they prove that whilst being useful is the tricky part I guess.

Obviously nobody does much work experience before the age of 16, and I am not meaning my year 8 daughter should be doing anything yet. However, a motivated 16 year old can do a great deal of use in a care home, even with modern health and safety restrictions: talk to the residents, for example. My daughters (the older is 16, but has no interest in medicine) have been in and out of my dad's care home for the last five years and therefore have seen a host of elderly people come and go, with all manner of physical and mental infirmities, and have got used to chatting with the deaf, those with dementia, etc. It's taught them an awful lot about humanity. You don't have to have training to interact with elderly people in a helpful way. The staff don't have time to sit and talk to the residents as much as they might, or sit with each of them and encourage them to drink a cup of tea.
I would entirely queue up to allow my daughter to empty bedpans if it would a) be of use and b) help her realise what caring for a dependent patient involves. Why not? Why is that beneath my child? When I worked in the vet's in the sixth form, before health and safety, we used to reuse hypodermic needles, and one of my jobs was to wash them and test them for sharpness by stroking them along my finger - a few hundred at a time, every Saturday. We've moved on from that, thankfully, but I am certain I am far more appreciative of the nurses I work with having done my time washing floors and cleaning surgical instruments. It's the sort of experience you only really get the most from by doing it regularly over a long period. How can a twenty minute interview possibly establish who is and isn't compassionate and practical? Nobody's going to sit in an interview and say they don't care about the elderly or disabled, are they?
Also, for those of us who have taken the private school route, regular contact with something like a care home is a good way to move outside one's own little cozy bubble - which is, to my mind, one of the less desirable facets of a private education (to return to the original post which I accidently hijacked!)

Yellowstone, could your DS drop into a local care home after school one day each week? Someone I know in my older DD's year does that at Dad's care home, and it seems to be working well. And I am sure that a real job will count in your DS's favour, too!

Everyone goes to school, it's the 'day job'. You have to actively opt out of the system to not go. So doing well at school (getting your A and A* grades) is no biggie, unfortunately.
Not everyone goes to University. It is an opportunity that is only available to a certain number of people.
Work experience shows that you can get off your backside and do things, especially if it is not school-organised WE. Therefore on your personal statement you mention WE because it shows (a) you are proactive and (b) you make the most of your opportunities.

It is shorthand for (a) I am motivated enough to apply to Uni so you ought to give me a place because (b) I will use the experience better than the next person well.

The quality of the WE is almost irrelevant (medical tourism, top London hospital or wiping bottoms), it is what you get out of it that is important.

Yellowstone: would your school sanction using Wednesday afternoons for getting caring experience? (it's what DD did instead of sport)

Why do people assume that if one is a doctor or Lawyer one does not send ones children to state school. I am a lawyer and my dh is an accountant and we choose to send our dc's to state school. We are not in the minority and we do not live in a so called 'middle class' area.

I'm with alice.

And, I am fascinated to read the different priorities people seem to have for their children...and also, as often on MN, amazed at the generalizations that get bandied about.

It depends on which schools, and perhaps even more on the parents, and equally important - on the child. And, I suppose, on the aspirations you have for your children.

I was educated (in Oxford, privately) with children of academics, ne'er do wells, ambassadors, alcoholic music biz people, RAF officers, nurses, artists, doctors, lawyers and housewives. Some in my class flunked their A-levels, a few went on to high flying occupations, the majority simply did 'ok'.

Nearly all my friends, at Secondary level, male and female, went to private schools - some very famous, some not. Some of them ended up dead from drug addiction, a few ended up with high ranking jobs, most did 'ok'.

My daughters are being educated (in London, state primary) with the children of doctors, engineers, tree surgeons, teachers, nurses, artists, authors, students, body builders, housing officers, and SAHMs. I have a feeling they will pan out much the same as the kids I went to school with - some messed up, some flying high, most 'ok'.

Their occupations are a lot more varied - which I personally like - and the parents are definitely no less supportive of their children, no less emotionally/mentally healthy, and no less inspiring than the families of the children I went to school with.

Here ,Here Eibean. You took the words right out of my mouth.

A 'nice' accent and eating disorders.

Bitter, moi?

It's a pressure cooker - that works for some kids, not for others.

lme30005 I can only relay my own personal experience of school. I was privately educated from the age of 11. The class sizes were small, the teachers excellent and I have no doubt that in the profession I am now in (rightly or wrongly) it had a significant impact on making the path to UNI and beyond a lot easier. The majority of people who I work with were also privately educated. That I am afraid is the way of the world. The imbalance is there. I agree with a lot of what has already been said however that there are good private schools and bad private schools. You must do what you think is right for your dc.

Good luck with whatever choice you make.

My sister and I went to a state comp whilst my three brothers were at private school. We all got into a top university to study medicine, several of my class mates went to Oxford. My sister and I now have our dcs in state comps where our brothers children are at a private school. Our local comp sends a very high proportion of kids to Russell group/Oxbridge.

Private does not always equal a better outcome, in my experience. I am very keen that my dcs meet and make friends with people from all walks of life. If they do end up in the caring professions they will know how to relate to people from all backgrounds, which I think is of real value.

Op

I realise that sounded very anti private schools. Your choices may be very different. If your local comp is not up to standard when you look into it, you should do what you think is right. and write to your MP

Agree with Elibean and Alice/

My penneth worth. I teach at an outstanding state school. Some of my classes have 12 students in them - small classes are not the preserve of private schools.

DH works in an outstanding private school and went on a course to do with Oxbridge/medical school applications. The advice given for med school was that shadowing a hospital porter was of much more value than a consultant as it gave a more holistic and realistic view of what medicine entails.

I'm sure you would concede however that 12 is not the norm in state schools.

I have no idea what the norm is nationally but it's not unusual at my school. We have classes of all sizes - the average being in the 20s. Exactly the same as in my DH's school.

I have a couple of classes of 30 but the majority are less than this.

Well here by the time they reach year 6 the norm is 36 to 40.
Hopefully the numbers go down again in secondary but even so.

22 in dd's school's Y6.

22 in dd's Y2 class, for that matter.

As I said, it really does depend on the school - amongst other things.

Well consider yourself lucky because I have been trying to relocate to the SW for 4 months now, looks like the move won't go ahead because I cannot find one outstanding school with a single space in year 5 or 3, not one from Cheltenham to Exeter. Where are all these lovely small classes ?

London?

Thats where we are, anyway.

Although 'outstanding', if you mean in Ofsted terms, is a whole other thread - dds' school is 'good' according to Ofsted.

Might be worth looking at the Ofsted 'good' ones, Ishani, if you haven't already? The numbers may be lower, but the schools just as outstanding in real terms...

Thanks for the suggestions alice and senua, I do think DS should top up on the local hospital and GP w/e with care experience, I think it is important .

Our school (state selective) has 30 in a class up to the Sixth Form where cuts in funding are leading to bigger class sizes in all the popular subjects. It makes it harder, inevitably, for both students and staff.

I see this thread has diverted a bit from the Op's original question, but I just wanted to agree with what Pagwatch said to start with - it really depends on the child and the school. When we moved out of central London we could finally afford to send the DCs to private school and they have loved their first year there. Small class sizes, loads of sport, lots of trips and other ways of making learning more interesting rather than being stuck in class all day where the teaching was combined with "crowd control" plus of course the loooong summer holidays (we broke up on Friday ). However, I don't think their school is particularly well equipped compared to the secondaries I have seen in our area, and it doesn't compare with the top grammar schools results-wise either. But it suits my two, one of whom has Aspergers and was not thriving in a state school class of 30 with no extra help. My other son is bright but lacks confidence, and being in a class of 15 has been brilliant for him. He may well take the 11+ but I'd prefer him to stay at his current school as the pressure of returning to a 30+ class of super-bright kids would not be ideal for him IME.

Will your child be happy, have a great experience, hopefully get the results they need for whatever they want to do next (and do remember that's as much down to the child as the school) and get everything they can out of school? Those are the questions. WHICHEVER school, after you have visited, researched, talked to students etc, is going to achieve that is the one to go for, be it private, if you can afford it, or state.

No school can provide you with a long term insurance policy.

It always makes me laugh to see the snobbery between private school users - you thought you were buying your way into privilege, but there's still someone like Propatria there to sneer at your provincialism and your paltry £9k education. Send them to state and then you won't have to worry about that sort of person.