Kingsdale v's Dunraven

[Iamaworrywart]

Hi All,

If you had to choose between Kingsdale and Dunraven as a secondary school for your child which would you choose? They are my first and second choice state school preferences, but now I'm not sure which one I'm really hoping to get .

Up until 2010 Kingsdale used the Southwark banding test, but for some reason this year Southwark has stopped doing it. As a result Kingsdale set its own test & the kids had to go to Kingsdale to take it. In some places, such as our school, where a lot of children were applying, a rep from Kingsdale came to the primary school to oversee the test. I did contact the local councillor you mention. She remarked that it was a pity we hadn't applied for a back-up option like the Walworth Academy. However I know a lot of children living very close to that school who put it on their list, but I've yet to meet anyone who was offered a place there. According to the Schools preference advisor, 200 children in Southwark were not offered any of their named schools, 40 children were not offered a place at all & 63 of Kingsdale's places were offered to children in Lewisham. It's a Nightmare.

I live on the border of Southwark and Lewisham. My eldest is only in Yr 1 but I am already panicking about not getting a place anywhere! We seem to be beyond the catchment for every school!! When did it all become so difficult??

Sympathise hugely - a few years ago we were offered Walworth Road!! for our child (we lived in Southwark - near the Lewisham boundary).Although we were ideologically against private school - I would have paid at that point if I could have. It was a nightmare - we home edded for a few years then got offered a place at the Brit School (year 10 for Art) but decided to move out of London as we also had younger children.

Only advice - get religion (lots of friends got into good CofE and Catholic schools eg. Greycoat, St Olave's etc), a huge pay rise (and a private tutor to pass the entrance exams for private)or move further out.

We appear to be in the same situation as you, Clue73 - not in a catchment area & we aren't church-goers. Mushroom3's comment about top set kids not getting places makes sense. So ... money is pumped into the education system, the primary schools get better so turn out more able kids, but the secondary school system can't cope with them all, so they get rejected in in order to fill up the less able/late developer bands! Wasn't the Grammar School system ditched because it creamed off the able kids at the expense of the less able? This sounds like the same problem in reverse. I appreciate this is a gross over-simplification but Hells Bells - we're all doomed!

I don't understand what people are supposed to do. Our nearest school is Aske's - but we live outside their normal catchment area (which seems to be shrinking by the year). My daughter could walk there in 20 minutes but instead she will no doubt be expected to get 3 buses to a failing school on the other side of the borough.
It's totally depressing and it feels like the whole system is in meltdown and no longer working.

clux73 - I know it all seems depressing. But if your child is only in Year 1 then the whole allocation system could change by the time you need a secondary school. You also have a lot of time to research schools, areas etc and move in the next 3 or 4 years to be able to access a good school.

Theoretically the banding was to give more children a chance to go to the better performing schools and to get more able children to go to the less good ones - to pull them up. However, in reality many people go private who hadn't wanted to, to faith schools or leave the area so it just doesn't work in London.

At my DD's primary the 48 children in year 6 went to a staggering 26 different secondaries - it is ridiculous - so much for local schools.

Elmgreen is quite close to part of a border with Southwark if you are in the S of the borough.

It would seem fairer if admission to Kingsdale was lottery within a certain catchment (to include a wide variety of housing) followed by lottery from outside catchment.

What happens if a pupil from one borough is educated in a another? Do the boroughs tot up how many of each other's children they educate and pay the difference?

This all demonstrates the failing of Academies and Free Schools.

A few years ago, parents in Wandsworth lobbied to change the admissions policies at Burntwood & Graveney, in favour of local children, and were at least partially sucessful.

www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmeduski/58/58we25.htm

www.schoolsadjudicator.gov.uk/upload/ADA00359%20Ernest%20Bevin%20reissue.doc

In the current situation, with Southwark not having any schools under its direct control (I'm not completely sure - but aren't all the schools in Southwark now either faith, foundation or academy?) I'm not sure it would possible to make a school change it's admission policy, although it may choose to of course.

I guess it would have seemed ridiculous for Kingsdale to operate a distance policy 10 years ago when it wasn't 1st choice for anyone - there may be a case now, if very local children are at a disadvantage because if they don't get into Kingsdale, then they are too far away to get into the next nearest schools on distance, and end up with a long journey to a school even further away.

I expect an inner catchment area would have to be very small though, and the simple fact of drawing up a border line would be fraught with problems, and suspicion about who was being left on the wrong side of it.

In Southwark, as far as I can see, academies & faith schools do not serve the local communities at all & Free Schools would make the situation even worse. I agree that for Clue73 it's early days. When my child was in y1 there were few decent schools that you would even want to get into. Now at least there are more, although securing a place is just as difficult. Schools do change - just look at Kingsdale - so don't despair just yet. Having said that, a staggering number of parents of children lower down our school have already started looking for houses outside London after seeing how many able children have failed to get a school this year. This is such a shame for the primary schools & ultimately for the secondaries. We are in S. Southwark & put Elm Green on our list. We are 159th in line!

Fedupdomesticgoddess-Did you apply to Deptford Green? it might be worth contacting them even if you didn't to see if you can get on their waiting list as their catchment area was about 3km last year and your son is without a school for september. I guess in terms of Kingsdale, it would be up to the school governors to decide if they want to have an inner catchment, like Bacon's College. Clux 73, schools do change their admissions criteria, in 2009 Haberdasher's Aske changed from random allocation to distance. That's why there are many Nunhead children going there now, ie from Southwark to a Lewisham school.

Hello All - Thanks for the tip, Mushroom3, re Deptford Green - apparently they do/did have vaccancies there & a friend in exactly the same position as us went to see it a couple of days ago. I think there is a massive amount of building work going on but she liked the feel of the school. We will definitely investigate this option. Does anyone out there have an insider info on Deptford Green? It's a fair way from us, although not impossible, but it isn't a school I know much about.

I've just seen a posting on the East Dulwich Forum, there is an open morning at Deptford Green on Thursday 24th March at 9.15am, for interested late 2011 applicants.

Such a shame about Kingsdale no longer operating in any way as a community school. It's a really good school now but local kids just aren't getting places.

I think to answer the OP's question it would depend on how much her DC needs a close friendship group. I have kids at another local secondary school and of their friends from primary who went to Kingsdale, none of them seem to have the kind of social circle that's available to kids at community schools - maybe because as someone else said , the kids come from all over south London to go there so socialising after school etc.etc. isn't so straightforward? Anyway I would certainly put that into the decision making mix. If your child is the sort who benefits from having a good solid, nearby social network then maybe Dunraven would be a better 1st option?

missimac
DD is at Kingsdale and has made friends with loads of others who live within walking distance, and she certainly isn't having any trouble socialising after schol or at weekends - she knows at least 50 close by, from lots of local schools. Maybe the children that you know at Kingsdale don't live that near the other children?

However, if Kingsdale were to change it's criteria and go for proximity, she and many of the others may not have got a place as it is right on the border with Lambeth and Lewisham - there would be more non-Southwark children (like DD), than Southwark children.

It's hard to see given it's location, how Kingsdale can ever have been a community school in the sense that you seem to mean, though, missimac - with most of the kids within walking distance of the school.

The current banding system means that children from all ability groups get a fair chance of admission - to me that suggests it is still a community school in the wider sense...

That doesn't mean your point about location & whether it suits your child isn't perfectly valid though missimac, everyone's circumstances & needs vary!

I guess when Kingsdale was built in the 50s, it was as part of the LCC or ILEA (anyone remember them?) so it was never expected to just serve Southwark children.