Kingsdale v's Dunraven

[Iamaworrywart]

Hi All,

If you had to choose between Kingsdale and Dunraven as a secondary school for your child which would you choose? They are my first and second choice state school preferences, but now I'm not sure which one I'm really hoping to get .

OP, which one did you get?

[nosy]

Yes, OP, what did you get? Fingers crossed it was a good outcome.

They are still only allowed to select 15% though - the scholarships this year are music, sports and maths - I don't know if that's 15% each or 15% for the whole intake.

I do think the scholarships may act as a kind of backdoor selection though - you still keep your scholarship if you aren't part of the original 15% selected but just get in via general admission, so that's an obvious incentive to apply if you have a specialism.

Last year all the children offered scholarships were told that they were dependent on them getting offered a place throught the "lottery" system. We were told before the application forms whether they had been offered a scholarship, and also that if we put them first, they would stand a better chance of getting in.

DD us a sports scholar and there are loads of others - definitely more than 15%

That said, she is loving it there and making very good progress - we are very pleased she got a place there

It is odd tho that they hand out all those extra scholarships when there is no guarantee of getting in. Why don't they just select 15pc (plus a few more to allow for those not taking up places)? I suppose it gives them an element of selection in the next round via waiting list. Altho I'm still confused as to how that wait list works!

Thanks re my name - I'm a fan of the original, ie Audrey Hepburn!

I love Audrey Hepburn, but am going to see the new one with DD and friends soon

I think the scholarships are for extra-leverage when you have to go to appeal (they are usually attained by committed, well-motivated children from supportive families, IMHO)

One of the experts will know for sure, but I don't think comprehensives are allowed to select more than 10% of their pupils by 'aptitude' for a given subject, e.g. music, sport, technology (how that last one differs from academic ability has never been clear to me).

In the 80s the Tories made it possible for comprehensives to allocate 15% of places by academic ability and some schools took that up. I think Labour changed the law/code so that no new schools could adopt that policy but the ones who were already doing it could continue, and that accounts for Graveney.

I don't understand, therefore, how Kingsdale has been able to adopt a policy giving 15% of its places to children with an aptitude for music, maths or sports.

In that case, how does Graveney manage to select 25% of its intake?? It used to be 30% and siblings of kids who passed the test are no longer given priority, but that's still a lot more than 10/15% ... I'm confused!

I think this is the last year that siblings can get in at Graveney.
A current year 6 that I know is going to Graveney from outside the proximity catchment because his brothers are there having got in on the ability test -which she did not.

Probably got my percentages in a twist, General!

I'm new to this so please be gentle. My dilemma is an enviable one but it's thrown my me and my DS into a spin! Kingsdale or Graveney? He's musical and academic and by a twist of me being a confused and sceptical mum, it seems we may have to choose between the two schools. Any thoughts gratefully appreciated

Which stream would he be in at Graveney?

Hi Blu, he'd be in the extension class which is the top set.

ermm you don't know which set he'll be in yet - it's not just done on the test results

we know kids who got in on the test who are in upper, not extension and local kids who didn't do so well in the test who are in extension

The sets are determined partly by the test score but mainly on SATS and school reports. The school does its own testing early on in y7 as well

Sorry generalhaig, I didn't know that. I was just stating what I was told by Wandsworth and another parent. He got 99% on the test but tbh I'm not too worried whether he's in upper or extention and I presume it will be one of the two.

I'd be keen to know your views/experience of Graveney and if you have any knowledge of Kingsdale academically. Both seem like very different but great schools and I want my DS to be both happy and challenged.

We are lucky to be in this situation but it doesn't make it any easier.
Thanks for the input.

I don't understand how you can be in the position now that you have places at both. Am I missing something here?

helsey, Kingsdale have streamed their current Y7's in 5 streams for everything, then put into ability groups for that stream. I think they went on SAT's results, interview and their own testing before the summer hols.

It has caused a huge kerfuffle amongst the Y7 parents.

DD was put into the A stream and is suitably challenged. Equally, I know of other children who seem very happy in different streams. TBH, I can't see that there's a huge difference between the streams anyway - loads of high acheivers in this year group.

Nothing is definite yet. We may have to choose. I thought both schools were a bit of a pipe dream, one being hugely oversubscribed lottery and t'other being hugely oversubscribed selective.

Ds has been offered a place at Kingsdale, but subsequently found out he scored highly enough for Graveney and would have got in if it had been above Kingsdale in preference. Apparently there is a very real possibility of them offering him a place from the waiting list which he is now on and we were told to be prepared to make a decision.

I must seem barking I know, but I underestimated how well DS would do so thought he may have a better shot at the lottery!

Thanks BTM, that really useful info. I don't know any current Kingsdale parents.

Why the kerfuffle? I would have thought that streaming for individual subjects was a good thing. Is there much movement across streams? Maybe too soon to tell.

How are you and DD finding it? It seems so idyllic.

I think the kerfuffle was partly that in some schools there isn't much movement between streams, with quite a lot of difference between the 'top' stream and the rest - and that once you are in a lower stream you may as well be in a secondary modern, steered towards vocational courses etc.

Kingsdale have said (at one of their forums) that this isn't going to be the case & that there could easily be movement between streams.

Another concern was that the prospectus indicated that there was mixed ability teaching in Y7 (with extension work for some) and so we just weren't expecting the streaming to start so early.

DD's primary school suggested she apply for the Sutton grammar schools (though I have to say I think they were completely out of their tree on that one) and she's now coasting happily in the middle stream, and seems quite adequately challenged.

I think that's a reflection of the number of high ability children in the current Y7 - the top 2 streams are quite large - as well as DD just finding her place.

Just to add, that I do know of a few children who have moved between streams, so yes, there is movement.

But I think there is limited space in the top streams, they are quite full - so if a child moves up a stream another would have to move down...

Yes, there has been movement - quite a bit, all upwards as far as I know - many parents seem to have been very surprised to find their child in a "lower" stream than they thought they should have been put in. I didn't even realise that they were in streams at all till DD told me!

However, I really don't think there's a huge difference between the streams anyway.

Thanks for adding your perspective on this miso. So helpful to have inside knowledge!

Your DD's primary may have been ambitious (possibly not) but at least they gave you suggestions and options. DS' primary failed to even mention the grammar option to anyone until long after the open days had been and gone and that was only when prompted! We had no opinions/help/advice whatsoever on which type of schooling may suit our DCs. (Soap box being put away now.)

BTM thanks for continuing imput. Feeling a bit silly after re-reading the thread to find you'd already answered some of my questions...oops.

BTM - What sort of testing did Kingsdale do before the summer holidays?

Helsey - I don't understand how you would be offered a place at Graveney assuming you have accepted your place at Kingsdale. We have got a place at G (very happy) and it was our first choice. Kingsdale was our 5th and I would not have thought we would get an offer from there. DS did the language test for Chestnut and scored highly enough to get a place but I found that out the day before the results were anounced and promptly forgot about it. I have wondered if Chestnut might suit him better as he is a quirky child albeit very academic.

Is it possible to re-visit your 2 - 6th choices and if you change your mind somehow get offered a place (assuming you scored highly enough in the various tests)?