Moving sets, is this normal?

[furymum]

My DD who is 11 and in the first term of comp secondary has been moved from the top set to the second with no consultation - in fact we had been told that she was doing very well. This was on the basis of her assessed work - she is 6C in maths and science and 5A in English, which I think is OK but she says other kids get much higher grades. She is mildly dyslexic. We received the letter a couple of days ago which was posted after the end of term. She is devastated as she has a best friends and other friends in the group she is leaving and most of her teachers are different. The kids are taught in the same set for all classes. Is this normal treatment or do I have the right to be upset at the lack of consultation?

The problem will be that although there is no real problem with her work, there are children in set 2 who are performing at a substantially higher level. In order for them to move up, someone (or more) has to move down. It is a sad fact but unfortunately the case. Consultation is virtually impossible due to the numbers involved. When I did set changes in a average size comprehensive, 2 or 3 movments in each set could end up being 30 or more children. What did you want consulting about? She hasn't done anything wrong but setting is a comparision and she has come off worse! You don't get to say which set your child will be in as you dont have all the information. Virtually every parent will have a good reason why THEIR child should not be moved down, yet if their child is the one moving up, wants it done now.

If the children in the set below are seen to be more deserving of the place than it is only right that they get it. They have to make decisions based on the best interests of all the children. I don't want to sound harsh but would you feel the same if your daughter was the one moving up?

If you want to discuss it, then phone up and ask, but approach it from how you can help your daughter achieve her maximum. The letter will have been posted at the end of term as everyone is very busy and there isn't time to do so before hand.

Two things really piss me off - firstly having been told she was doing really well and was in the right set and secondly being told after the end of term when other movers were told face to face in the week before. I sincerely hope that this is not how other schools treat kids but it sounds like it is!

I would take heart from the fact that the school actively adjust sets, rather than leaving students in limbo in the wrong sets.

If they are doing set changes now, I'm sure they will consider further changes in the near future.

If she works hard and demonstrates her ability in class this term, then if it's appropriate I'm sure they will move her back up.

Her grades do sound good, they would get you in top set in some schools, but not all. I know in ds2's school there are students getting 7s and 8s in Maths and Science already in yr7, and 6a in English.

Just to add I have been in regular contact with the school due to the dyslexia, was assured she was doing great and a set move was not on the agenda. I am the one taking the initiative on how she can do her best and your unkind comments are not very helpful to someone whose Christmas has been ruined by all this.

What unkind comments? And why has your Christmas been ruined? You need to ask the school why as it is possible it is a clerical error.

But again, why do you expect to be consulted?

Thank you Roisin. Unfortunately the school say that set moves are quite rare. DD is devastated because she will lose her friends and most of the teachers are different.

One of the things I really like about the comprehensive school system is the movement up and down sets. It means that pupils do have to work hard to keep their place in the top set and if they start in a lower set they can move up.
The one thing which would concern me in your position is that you say that she is taught in the same set for all subjects which is really streaming rather than setting which is different.
If you've been told it's unusual to move sets then I'd make a appointment with the form tutor or head of year and have a chat with them. Her weakest subject seems to be English, so maybe she could do some extra work so that she can catch up.

check out my thread (sorry cant do link thingys ) but my problem was the other way round ) if she has moved down she can move up again at a later date . hth .

I don't think I would expect to be consulted - but I do think it was wrong not to tell your dd at the end of last term. A letter out of the blue is not a good idea.

She is doing well working at high level 5 level/6 in year 7 so I wouldn't worry about that.

The friend thing is a issue, but reassure her that she will still see them at break and lunch when the main socializing is done - and she will meet new people in the new set too.

Schools can't be expected to consult parents on set moves, but should have contacted you about it. You have to trust their judgement and support your dd. Schools rarely move students without careful consideration. It sounds like they band rather than set, if she is moving for everything.

Also, end of first term in y7 is prime time for assessing groups, I'd be pleased they are on top of the appropriate placing of students.

I think you should have been consulted.

And moving kids rarely has any good long term effect.

Sorry if you are both upset.

The school seem to have given conflicting messages and I think it is not toot much to expect an explanation as to why they were told she wad in the right set and doing well and now not. some of the responses always seem to say that the school has no duty of care of communication and I am sorry but they do, it is not just about teaching but about communicating well with the child and parent

My son was top set for maths in the first term of yr7, they then moved him down. I would much rather him be top of the second set than be bottom and struggling of the top set. However at the beginning of yr9, he has moved up again.

I don't think anyone's comments have been unkind and if it has ruined your Christmas then you are being a bit bloody precious tbh.

It doesn't sound like a disaster, second set is still pretty good, isn't it? As for friends, surely they shouldn't be chatting during lessons anyway, and maybe it'll mean fewer distractions! They can still socialise during breaks and lunchtime as someone already said.

I do think it's a bit odd that they have to be in the same set for all subjects. Often it works out that a particular child is the same level across the board, but not necessarily, especially when there's an issue like dyslexia that might cause them to struggle more with some subjects than others. Seems unfair and silly to move her down a set in maths, for example, because she's finding English a bit more of a challenge. They could be a bit more flexible about that maybe?

Your son is your son, everyone is different, every child matters. you may know he was struggling but the op did not know, and was told the opposite. The school should have communicated better and the fact that the op has been upset over Xmas is largely again because of bad communication by the school in sending letters out after the break. of course the op will be upset if her dd is upset over Xmas.

My DS was also moved down from Maths top set at the end of Y9 after struggling for three years. He's now in Y11 and is on target for an A in his GCSE; with some hard work, he may get an A*. In his recent mock, he got a higher score than some students in Set 1, but he likes being where he is! Also, he was moved away from all his boffy friends but soon got over it (character building, etc).

I should also add that a 6C in Y7 would not be enough for the top set at my DCs comp. I would probably have been annoyed about the conflicting messages from your DD's teacher, but I would NOT expect to be consulted about a set move - but informed, yes.

Speaking as the Mum of a mildly dyslexic son I don't think others realise how very shaky their confidence is and the actions that other children can take in their stride have a major impact.

I think in your child's particular case the school should have explained fully to you in advance and in the nicest possible way, why this change of group was necessary in order to ensure that a major drop in confidence was not suffered.

I know that my son (now 22 and due to get a First at Uni in his Masters) still hears the negative things that people say more than the positive comments and it takes v little for him to loose his confidence.

It sounds like your dd is at a very high performing comprehensive, and that set 2 is also a high achieving group.

My first choice comp for dd1 gets 40% A*/A, so in this school set 2 is good (they also do streaming).

I can see why your dd is upset, but be supportive and positive. Her NC levels show that she is doing well and is above average.

It sounds like what they do at DC's intended high school (had a tour few months ago and I asked a lot about set mobility). I don't see how it could ever be practical in a large school to "consult".

DC certainly have moved around sets a lot in primary school. I was never consulted -- and never felt like I should be, either.

My DD is also Y7 and I only know which set she is in from her telling me! I trust the teachers to make the right choice.

Please try to chill about this a little, its really not a major issue and if your DD is upset you need to help her to shrug it off and continue to work hard.How are you both going to cope if something major happens like her failing her GCSEs if you get so upset about this ?

Eh? What unkind comments? I thought everyone was being very measured in their posts.

Pupils get moved about the sets. There will be many reasons for this and no, the parents don't get consulted as it isn't their business, only that of the pupil and the teachers involved. DD is in top set for everything but she has been told in no uncertain terms that there are other children coming up on the inside who will take her place if she lets things slide at all! It doesn't mean she will be more stupid, or less hard-working, but that other children are doing a little better.

DS1 isn't as 'successful' and has moved up and down sets a few times in the first few years of secondary school. It isn't a big deal - he just shrugs and gets on with trying harder.

It is perfectly ok for the parent to be interested and or concerned about her Dds school progress, or there would be no point in parents evenings. these posts are so pro teachers, which is fine up to a point, but teachers are human and make errors of judgements or just plain mistakes!, it is okay to question politely in the same way that it is okay to question a doctor or a lawyer if you are concerned. If the school set an expectation with the pupil or parent that she is in the right set and is doing well it is perfectly reasonable to question or expect an explanation as to why! Why is everyone so defensive to the school, no one is criticising, just asking and expecting a reasonable method of communication by the school
It might be right to move her down, it might be wrong, at the moment the pupil and the op don't know because it hasn't been handled correctly by the school or they would know and would not be upset!

Thank you all for your comments. It was a difficult year due to a bereavement and I was so happy that DD had settled into school and being in the top group gave a real boost to her self esteem and she seemed to be doing so well. The school is not that high performing - about 65% get maths and English at grade C or higher, a handfull of A/A*s in the whole school and it doesn't feature in the top schools lists in the papers or anything like that and a lot of people round here go private to avoid it! The second set appears to have a lot more disruptive kids as well (though there are a few in the top set) which is another reason DD doesn't want to move. DD did get level 7's for some pieces of work this term and often got the top mark in her group, getting form points for doing the best work etc, but the term grade was decided on an exam style test at the end of term. In English her grade has not improved from SATS and part of it was a spelling test, where spelling is one of her main problems. What really got me is that I discussed whether or not she might be moved down with the SENCO (due to her dyslexia) and was told it was not going to happen and now it has! Also only one other kid in her set (who seems rather disruptive) was told he was moving. This was verbally before the end of term, and his parents got a phone call and were offered the opportunity to meet with the head of year - not just a hurried letter like we got. I can accept there are good reasons for moving across streams but not done in this manner and I will ask the school for an explanation. Thank you again for taking the time to read and comment.

Everything is relative.
If your child was in the middle of the set and because others had worked hard had slipped to lower in the set you would never have known.
But your child is at the bottom of the set so the next ranked child happens to be in another room
they swapped
its not a big thing. at DD's school, the sets were fluid right through year 7
some kids moved up in some subjects, down in others, up and then down again, down and then up again
it's all about matching ability to peer group

Not every child can be top in everything
they should aim to do THEIR best.
And parents should support them rather than winge about it.
Having a chip on your shoulder about being moved a set in year 7 will not cut much ice with employers in 15 years time.