Moving sets, is this normal?

[furymum]

My DD who is 11 and in the first term of comp secondary has been moved from the top set to the second with no consultation - in fact we had been told that she was doing very well. This was on the basis of her assessed work - she is 6C in maths and science and 5A in English, which I think is OK but she says other kids get much higher grades. She is mildly dyslexic. We received the letter a couple of days ago which was posted after the end of term. She is devastated as she has a best friends and other friends in the group she is leaving and most of her teachers are different. The kids are taught in the same set for all classes. Is this normal treatment or do I have the right to be upset at the lack of consultation?

What a ridiculous post. even if you were employed, you would expect communication and explanation if you were demoted! Not that I think it is reasonable to compare a set move query in year 7 to how it would affect your employment negatively!!
It is quite simple the op and her dd do not know why she has been moved sets as the information she had been given previously is that she was doing fine and in the right set. They would like it to have been communicated better, perfectly reasonable, it is not a crime to question the reasons, end of

Of course it's not unreasonable. And the OP can question it if she wishes, or more appropriately her DD can, at the start of next term. But there is no need to get upset about it and start seeing conspiracies and unfairness. There will be a reason but whether or not the OP will like it is another matter.

DS1 didn't get put up the top set for science last year - he was doing well and was top of his set. He was annoyed and confused. I encouraged him to ask and he did so. That was all that was needed.

Stop giving mixed messages to the op, if it is reasonable then it is reasonable. The op has never mentioned conspiracy theories just that she was upset about the way the school communicated, again perfectly ok. Posters need to stop berating her and calling her a whinger and other inappropriate names for just being interested and concerned about herchilds education. Sometimes these thread responses are so anti parent rights and pro school that they are completely unbalanced

The OP asked 'do I have the right to be upset at the the lack of consultation?'.

What most replies have said is; you can't expect to be consulted about set moves (it may be a different matter in the Private sector).

When my DS was moved down, he was told face-to-face by his teacher, and then we received a letter. Previously, at parents' evening, we'd been warned he was in the danger zone. We felt the whole thing had been dealt with sensitively and correctly.

I agree that the OP's school did not appear to handle her DD's situation particularly well and I'd be upset about that.

I don't agree that responses on these threads are anti-parents' rights; they tend to be the opposite if anything, IMO.

I don't agree I'm afraid, my observations are thst usually whenever a parent criticiises a school or teacher in even the smallest way, there tends to be a response that is typically calling the parent interfering or whinging - regardless of whether it is reasonable for them to be concerned, which it is in this case.

All I am observing is that the general response seems to be never to dare to question the school. This is wrong, it is always a parents right to question sensitively and with respect and the posters should recognise this occasionally and support the parents concerns more. There is sometimes a lot of words used like precious or whingers etc. Schools are on the whole great but sometimes they get it wrong and that is whaf parents are there to do, to sensibly question or to support their dc in this manner, especiAlly when their dcs are in the first term of year 7.

"Is this normal treatment or do I have the right to be upset at the lack of consultation?"
That was the OP's question and the answers have been:

1. yes
2. yes you have a right to be upset but no reason to be. If you want to know, ask.

I think if you read the thread it does not say op has a right to be upset, some do, a lot don't.
"if it ruined your Xmas I think you are being a bit bloody precious tbh"
"parents should not whinge about it"
"having a chip on your shoulder etc..."
"none of the parents business"

I said typically the posts are basically saying that op was wrong for being upset by this when actually she did have both the right and the reason to be upset due to the poor communication by the school. If the way she described the situation was correct then her dd was not treated correctly and it upset her greatly over Christmas period as there was no time to address.

it was a simple situation, bad communication by the school, resulting from poor expectation setting by the school - outcome dc and parent feel justifiably upset and want to know reasons. posters should have just
reflected this simple situation and not al the
Felt it necessary to post judgements on the op berating her for saying that she was upset and felt there could
have been more consultation .

as one poster said, their school did, to all intent and purpose, consult, as they told the child beforehand and mentioned at parents evening, and then sent a letter - that is consulting,

Just to clarify, in the example of my DS, we were not consulted as such, it was more a case of being informed, "this is what is going to happen". Which we accepted.

To my mind, consult means, 'to seek the opinion/input of', which is not quite the same thing.

I think you should have been verbally consulted before the set moves, it is standard practice where I work.

As to the mixed messages, it may be that your dd does deserve to be in the top set for one subject but not others.

Out of interest, would this thread have happened if OP's DD had been moved UP a set without consultation?

YANBU.
At first I thought it was only for one subject that she had changed sets, but you seem to be saying that the forms are arranged on the basis of overall ability.
If this is the case she is basically changing to anew form afyter only one term at the school.I think this is a stupid and very disruptive way of running things.Why aren't they put into ability sets for individual subjects like Maths and science.Somebody good at English may be terrible at Maths.
How did they group them in the first place ?
SATS. CATS? Very dodgy tools I would think and if that is the case I would expect there to be massive movements between the classes.
Teachers may say they set them on the basis of test results but in reality they will be swayed more by what they have seen of the pupilsin class, how quickly they can pick up and apply new ideas etc.

Talkin peace - this is just what i am saying, that is such a petty thing to say - as it shows an underlying criticism and lack of empathy with the ops position, as to say she is only concerned because her dc has been moved down, err well yes! I haven't heard many people be upset about a promotion, as this means you are doing well, however moving someone down inherently means that you are nor maintaining your original progress and therefore you would expect some warning of this, hence the ops position.

But anyway, to move sets so quickly in year 7 term 1 can be very disruptive as oldandgreymouse says, and therefore should be for a very good reason and one that the dc is aware of beforehand.

Allso everyone is is so black and white about the schools lack of responsibility in not consulting
beforehand? Even though It seems to be standard
practice in some schools and clearly is in an ideal
situation the best way to deal with these issues
of communication, so why do we so easily accept that the school do not have this duty of care at all to give due warning and inform before?

As I said if is a simple situation, the school should have consulted, informed, whatever you call it, and the op should have been supported not criticized.

docbunch, I am sorry but I think you are being pedantic, whatever the dictionary meaning of consult is you were clearly kept Informed about your dcs position, the op wasn't. Straightforward.

Watch,

The point is that this shuffling goes on all the time in schools and not everybody can be a "winner"
At DD's school there are three subject groupings, each of which are streamed into five levels. Non streamed subjects are taught by tutor group.
In the first term of year 7, some kids moved streams four or five times. This shuffling carried on right through the year. It has almost stopped in year 8.
Why? Because the KS2 sats have become a very unreliable measure and the schools have to get each child into the best "fit" for them.
Consultation :
300 year 7's were being assessed fortnightly. Roughly half got moved a set of some sort or other.
That would have been hundreds of letters anh hours of tutor time spent explaining that they are the teachers and we are the parents.
Instead we got one letter at the start of the year with our DC's pastoral tutors' email address and to raise issues that way.
I know of parent who did. I know of others who chose to trust them.

Don't let it ruin your Christmas.
There is NOTHING you can do about it till term starts so stop chewing on it.

The main problem here seems to be this is not just a matter of moving sets for individual subjects, but an entire move of form for every subject, which is much more disruptive for a DC.

I would be pretty dismayed if my Dcs were having a complete move of class at the end of their first term of a new school and would expect it not to happen except in extreme circumstances, after lengthy talks with head of year, etc.

If this is routine at this school, I have to say that the school sound barking.

Talkin peace, some of what you are now saying makes sense, however the point is not that it is sometimes necessary to move sets, but that the op was given mixed messages and there should be some indication from the teachers, maybe not war and peace, but some warning that changes are a possiblilty because of their progress etc. this wasn't given, quite the contrary.

all I am saying is that a letter out of the blue at Xmas is not great practice, regardless of the numbers involved, the school still need to endeavour to follow a reasonable and pastoral method of communication.

I also accept that there are teachers and parents, but that does not mean that when there is an anomaly like the one experienced by the op, that they should not be questioned, as you would a lawyer or a doctor as previously said. Trust is one thing, and is a good thing when the system works, but blind trust is not always a
good thing and parents are there to be the critical
friend on these occasions.

one thing I do agree with is, although it will be very unsettling over Xmas quite understandably, deal with it in the new year and try to enjoy the rest of the break.

Pink, totally agree, wish I could be so succinct!!

Agreed.

In DD's school there is a clear split between academic and pastoral. I'm not sure it would be possible to make a child move sets in every subject. Considering the effort that goes into making sure each of the tutor groups is balanced and the fact that the subject heads act independently, if such a thing DID happen it would signify a real weakness in management.

BUT the main thing is that OP needs to think of prettier, happier things and then clear the air with the head of year (book it by email) before lessons start next term.

Agreed talking peace

Why is she being moved for all subjects. Surely most comps set for specific subjects only and therefore moving one set in one subject should not make a difference. I disagree with complete streaming for this reason. A child can be much better at science and maths than English and languages. Why should they have to move down a set for everything?

Exactly my thoughts, bitsy.

Seems very extreme.

Is she moving streams , ie. tutor groups, hence why all her classmates / tutors will be different?

If this is the case, YANBU to be upset - DD would be devastated if she had to move tutor groups after spending a whole term making friends.

Definitely question the school about what is going on.

agree giddy - our science sets are based on our maths sets, but totally different to the english ones. Other subjects are unstreamed in Y7. Even then we can move a child up ordown a set in science and leave them in their original maths set as the timetable is worked to permit that. We don't consult the parents, but it is never a swift off the top of your head decision.
If the OPs child is genuinely having tochange in allsubjects then i would be very concerned, and wondering a little bit about how well run the school was.

Last year - due to timetable restraints - we had yr7 sets across all 3 core subjects. It was a nightmare and we won't repeat it.

At the boys' school they don't set at all in yr7. I thought this would be very tough, but actually it's not. The teachers work hard to differentiate widely and the children make great progress. Then they set at the end of yr7 on the basis of thorough and detailed information, so there tends to be less movement.

I really don't know how a school can claim to be a Comprehensive School if they stream across all subjects. Setting individual subjects, or at least core subjects, gets the best from the most. I would be hopping mad.