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Secondary education

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Original poster

Average grades of a 14 year old?

27 replies

MrsSnowman · 09/12/2010 11:32

Is anyone willing the share with me what level their year 9 DC's are at?

My DD is mostly on level 5s with a level 6 in drama. I thought this was ok until my 11 year old nephew excitedly showed me HIS current grades in year 7 which were all level 5s. He's expected level 6a and one level 7 by the time he's in year 9.

So is he the exception or is that normal? if so, my DD is actually quite far behind Sad

OP posts:
titchy · 09/12/2010 11:45

I think 6b by the end of Y9 is nationally expected average. So 5a/6c at the beginning of Y9.

Kez100 · 09/12/2010 14:18

I thought it was level 5 or 6 at end of year 9 - so average, guessing, would be 5a/6c at end of year 9.

LadyGlencoraPalliser · 09/12/2010 14:26

It should be two full levels higher than what she achieved in KS2 SATs. So if she got the national average of 4b in Y6, then her target for end of year 9 ought to be 6b. Did the school give her target grades?
DD is also in Y9, but it is very hard to gauge what level she is working at - the school reports are given as grades from 1-5; 1 means you are working at level 6, 7 or 8, 2 at level 4 or 5. Not a lot of help really. I tend to rely on DD telling me how she has done in individual class tests to get a feel for where she is.
What kind of feedback do the school give generally? The most important thing is that she is making good progress relative to her own KS2 levels, so it would be worth talking to the school about this.

roisin · 09/12/2010 17:54

I agree, average grades are really not helpful.

In my school L5a is good for the end of yr9 for the "average" student. They generally have targets of 6s, but atm often aren't reaching those.

But if a particular student leaves primary with 5a in Maths and English then L5 at the end of yr9 is spectacularly bad!

herewegoagainxyz · 09/12/2010 17:56

DS was all level 5s at the end of yr 6, and all level 7s at end of yr 9, so yes, two levels up over those 3 years.

A lot depends on what your dd's yr 6 scores were.

circular · 11/12/2010 12:19

Roisin

But if a particular student leaves primary with 5a in Maths and English then L5 at the end of yr9 is spectacularly bad

PixieOnaLeaf · 11/12/2010 16:33

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Message withdrawn

roisin · 11/12/2010 17:50

Yes, there is a comparison between Ks2 and KS3, especially in English and Maths. They do tend to experience a dip, but often not that deep, especially among the brighter kids.

Your secondary will almost certainly know their sublevel from primary, if you ask.

At my school L5a/6c for top set yr9, for students who'd got L5 in primary, would be considered disappointing. What subject is this?

magentadreamer · 11/12/2010 17:53

Circular, DC's can get over inflated KS2 SAT results but TBH I would be rather concerned that an "above average school" thinks 5a/6c is good for top set yr 9 I would have thought it would be very good for the end of Yr7 if a DC had arrived in yr7 with a level 5 in yr6. What is your DD's end of KS3 target? My DD goes to a school that at best could be thought of as average and has a below average attainment intake. DD at the end of Yr8 was a 6B and that put her in the bottom third of her set 3 of 7.

magentadreamer · 11/12/2010 18:02

I should have added this was for English.

freerangeeggs · 11/12/2010 18:35

The levels are very subjective. As long as you're seeing your DD progress over her time in secondary you shouldn't worry too much. The grade descriptors are always going to be a bit fuzzy and teachers interpret them as consistently as they can.

Most SATS grades are unreliable, IME, for a variety of reasons.

By all means get in touch with the school though, if you're concerned.

houseproject · 13/12/2010 20:46

Hi,

Not sure how its changed but my DD was level 7 at most subjects at Year9 and that seems to flow into her predictions for GCSEs which were highly accurate.I would have thought level6 was a target for Year 9 since it is 2 levels higher than Yaer6 level4 targets.

circular · 16/12/2010 19:41

Apologies - a bit late back to the thread.

Roisin - the school never had her levels passed on from primary, let alone any sub-levels. She has never had any FFT kevkes showing ether. She went to a private prep school and was the only pupil from there.

This is for English, and at the end of year 8 we were told that 5a was fine for top set. This is set 1 of 4. Some of the pupils in her set had level 4 for English at KS2. She is predicted 6b for the end of Y9 and is currently 'on target'.

For Maths and Science she is currently 7c, predicted 7b for end of year 9.

I am saying the school is only just above average based on 5 A to C's at GCSE being around 55 to 60% incl. Eng & Maths.

Silverstreet · 22/12/2010 20:57

Hi

My Yr 9 DD also seems to have progressed less in her English than her other subjects. She is second set out of 5 for English, and 5a now. The English seems out of line with what she started with too, and with progression across other subjects. The school is a very good comp. I was going to ask at parents evening if there is a problem in English as according to this she has hardly progressed and the score is one of her lowest. But I suspect that maybe the English is something that is less linear in terms of progression and maybe they go up several sub levels in one hit?

bruffin · 23/12/2010 09:21

DS was second set for english in year 9. He was a 4c for writing and 5b for reading at end of KS2 and ended up a level 7 for each aspect of english, so I don't think level 5 in year 9 for top sets is very good. I just looked at his progress report at this stage in yr 9 he was a 6b.

DCs school do get 80% a-c for english, not sure how they do it though.

bruffin · 23/12/2010 09:24

Meant to say DCs school is a normal comp and get mid 60s% for 5 gcses incl maths and english.

circular · 23/12/2010 18:57

Hi Silverstreet

Definitely worth mentioning a parents evening.

We did in yr8, but were told levels were fine. Looking back, I think we never questioned it further then as DD had a big personality clash with the teacher in Yr7, and was dropped back to 4b. So were glad she was improving again.

Will certainly raise with English teachers at our next parents meeting, but that's not till spring now.

Seriously considering an English tutor and/or independent assessment.

Silverstreet · 23/12/2010 19:59

thanks Circular

Our parents evening is in January so we don't have long to wait, assuming snow has gone and school is back on by then.

IndigoBell · 23/12/2010 21:48

Bruffin - your child was a 4c for writing and a 5b for reading at end of Year 6? My DS is on target for grades like that, and I'm wondering how such a big diff in his writing and reading scores will effect him. Did you notice anything?

For example one poster said kids are streamed by their writing score not their reading score - which would put my DS in a very low stream....

So did your son have any problems with such a discrepancy between his scores?

(Sorr for thread hijack)

bruffin · 24/12/2010 00:12

HI Indigo, I started a thread on here asking the same question when I got his CAT scores I used to be known as Christywhisty

Can't believe we are now over 3 years laterShock DS is yr10 now.
He had a lot of extra one to one help for spelling through year 5 and 6.
As you can see he got very high science and high maths.
His secondary school set CAT test in the july before he started. His CAT results were high so he was put in top set for everything except maths and english, where he was 2nd set.
He should really have been 2nd set for MFL and eventually moved down in yr 8 where he was much happier.
He has excellent analytical and comprehension skills and joins in well in class, so his intelligence is fairly obvious and all his teachers have all said the top set was the right place for him and tried to build his confidence with writing.

The school identified him as a high flyer from the start and he thrived even in english. His written work has improved but his spelling is still appalling. He ended up nearly all 7s and an 8 in maths for KS3. He is now forecast all As and A*s for gcse.

IndigoBell · 24/12/2010 07:55

Bruffin - thanks! Hearing how well your son has done gives me loads of hope.

My ds (currently in year 5) is predicted a 5a in reading, maths and science but he will be lucky to scrape a level 4 in writing. So I am so glad to hear it all worked out for your son.

Thanks

DecorhatetheChristmasTree · 26/12/2010 09:04

How did I miss this thread?! I have been fretting over this issue for the past year or so - my Y9 dd also seems to have made little progress in several subjects - eg was 5a midway through Y7 and is only 6c two years later.

I have raised it with the school but don't feel I am getting anywhere. From what I know about SATs I feel she should be doing a lot better. Her school is supposed to be above average btw...

I am almost resigned to having to do extra work with her at home...esp when they casually mentioned that to do triple science (which she wants to do) she is going to have to get at least a 6a. She was assessed as 7c lady year but now is 6b????

circular · 26/12/2010 11:12

We had similar in some subjects. One even went back two whole levels.

When we questioned it, were told that the teachers had yet to see her working at her supposed yr8 level. It appears that the 'assessments' were done so early, that when the teachers did not know her, they just set an 'average' level. This has meant for some subjects, her eoy9 targets are below her eoy8 actuals!

Being cynnical, if this is common practice in yr9, then everyone will reach target.

She has had proper assessments in most subjects since and they are typically coming about the same or a sub-level above her eoy8.

herbietea · 26/12/2010 11:25

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DecorhatetheChristmasTree · 26/12/2010 12:34

Herbie my dds school is also graded outstanding & gets even better GCSE results....

Dd was level 5 in KS2 as well....

My thoughts are:

Either she is not as bright as she appeared to be when younger

She's not working (but gets top grades for effort??)

There is a problem at the school end of things

I wish I knew which it was as then I could deal with it!