Please or to access all these features

Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Possible move to Scotland from England but should we be concerned about education?

456 replies

Wouldliketomove · 18/08/2026 12:11

Hello Everyone,

As the title says, DH and I are carefully researching a possible move to Scotland for our family (two toddlers currently) but I am constantly reading worrying things about education in Scotland. I'm aware there are also soon to be significant changes, which complicates things further and introduces more unknowns.

Can anyone with experience either as teachers or parents offer a perspective on education in Scotland at the moment please or any further insight into what is to come? I have tried to read what is widely available.

Thanks very much in advance

OP posts:
PollysKenwood · 13/10/2026 13:00

Klippa · 13/10/2026 10:15

So why do they still call it a Nat 5 then, if it’s not the same value as maths? Surely that’s devaluing maths?

It’s a different course, it’s not the same as N5 maths. I don’t know why the school told them to sit it unless they thought it was a good back up? My DCs school gets them to do Nat 4 maths just so they have it and it shows up on the sheet though I don’t think it’s actually graded and they don’t seem to give it a seconds thought.

PollysKenwood · 13/10/2026 13:18

My DC’s friend did Apps of Maths instead of Maths. She’s not great at Maths but she has a qualification to show employers that she has a degree of competence. I think it’s good that she can show she has an understanding of numbers as we interact with them in day to day life.

2chocolateoranges · 13/10/2026 13:26

Klippa · 13/10/2026 11:45

To study a language thoroughly I would expect to have read books about it and learning the history is just another way of building up French vocabulary while learning about the culture. We didn’t study Shakespeare in my Scottish school as many moons ago as it was deemed that people going to my school were too thick for it so we did sunset song instead (which was terrible!). Shame they’re still making the same judgements. Shakespeare is such an important part of our culture - so many English phrases, sayings etc come from Shakespeare and I was taught nothing about it. You can get through Nat 5, higher and advanced higher without studying Shakespeare at all!

I went to school in the 90’s , I sat higher English and didn’t study Shakespeare then either.

Klippa · 13/10/2026 13:54

2chocolateoranges · 13/10/2026 13:26

I went to school in the 90’s , I sat higher English and didn’t study Shakespeare then either.

Yes. Don’t you think it would have been useful though? Way more useful and relevant than sunset song!

PollysKenwood · 13/10/2026 14:07

I went to school in the 1980s and studied MacBeth. Also had a school trip to see the Merchant of Venice at the Lyceum. DC1 studied Romeo & Juliet for Higher.

florafoxtrot · 13/10/2026 14:09

Don't really recognise your description of Scottish primary schools either. I have a P4 who is a fluent reader, very well versed in times tables and came home the other day with clear explanation of right, acute, obtuse and reflex angles. So quite clearly she's not doing "practically nothing" all day.

She also has weekly homework of reading (with an assignment related to her reading book) and a maths activity.

And as far as Shakespeare is concerned - I was at secondary school in the 90s and early 00s and did MacBeth, R&J, Hamlet and King Lear! Last two were for AH admittedly.

PollysKenwood · 13/10/2026 14:49

I think the biggest issue is the range of experience. I’m very happy with the school my DCs attended but would have been extremely unhappy with some of the schools as described here.

Arran2024 · 13/10/2026 15:00

Klippa · 13/10/2026 11:45

To study a language thoroughly I would expect to have read books about it and learning the history is just another way of building up French vocabulary while learning about the culture. We didn’t study Shakespeare in my Scottish school as many moons ago as it was deemed that people going to my school were too thick for it so we did sunset song instead (which was terrible!). Shame they’re still making the same judgements. Shakespeare is such an important part of our culture - so many English phrases, sayings etc come from Shakespeare and I was taught nothing about it. You can get through Nat 5, higher and advanced higher without studying Shakespeare at all!

Did we go to the same school?!!!

2chocolateoranges · 13/10/2026 15:49

Klippa · 13/10/2026 13:54

Yes. Don’t you think it would have been useful though? Way more useful and relevant than sunset song!

Nothing I’ve done in my life has required me to read Shakespeare!

Scrumptiouslyy · 13/10/2026 16:37

Arran2024 · 13/10/2026 15:00

Did we go to the same school?!!!

Yes, my DC did no Shakespeare at school. When I went to school I studied Macbeth and Hamlet.

Scrumptiouslyy · 13/10/2026 16:39

florafoxtrot · 13/10/2026 14:09

Don't really recognise your description of Scottish primary schools either. I have a P4 who is a fluent reader, very well versed in times tables and came home the other day with clear explanation of right, acute, obtuse and reflex angles. So quite clearly she's not doing "practically nothing" all day.

She also has weekly homework of reading (with an assignment related to her reading book) and a maths activity.

And as far as Shakespeare is concerned - I was at secondary school in the 90s and early 00s and did MacBeth, R&J, Hamlet and King Lear! Last two were for AH admittedly.

You weren't educated under the Curriculum for Excellence then, so that's only relevant in that it shows us how much better Scottish education was before the Curriculum for Excellence. My DC did no Shakespeare at all.

PollysKenwood · 13/10/2026 17:01

Didn’t the poster up the thread say they went to school in the 1990s and did no Shakespeare. I’m no fan of the SNP, quite the opposite, but that was before they got their fingers on the curriculum. DC1 sat Higher English in 2023 and did Romeo & Juliet so it’s not that Shakespeare isn’t an option, it’s just the schools your DCs are at are ignoring it.

Scrumptiouslyy · 13/10/2026 17:03

2chocolateoranges · 13/10/2026 10:35

If I was a teen at school, I wouldn’t want to be learning about French history in French, I’d want to be learning the language and how I can use it.

and reading Chaucer and Shakespeare isn’t for everyone, we are moving with the times, this is modern day, so books, poetry etc moves with the times.

listening to some of the stories on here I’m just glad my children went to the high school , in our catchment, supportive staff, encouraging staff and staff who listen to the children making their learning interesting and exciting.

both mine did well throughout school , university and both have amazing jobs.

Learning history in French from a native French speaker is using French. Those Italian teenagers spoke near-fluent French. I spoke to the Italian girl in English, which was the second foreign language she was taught at school, and she wasn't far off fluency in that. How much do you think children who are taught French or Spanish (usually only one language, if that) in Scottish schools can say? How much can they read in the foreign language?

And in my view we shouldn't be throwing almost our whole culture onto the scrap heap and just reading a couple of modern books or modern poems with our young people. They should read a selection of great works from Chaucer onwards. Or maybe they could just read "Gone Girl" or whatever and be done with it? This is what dumbing-down of culture looks like, and our schools are facilitating it.

PollysKenwood · 13/10/2026 17:04

Anyway, am leaving this thread now because I think we’ve all got our own entrenched positions but it’s been interesting to hear about others experiences.

Scrumptiouslyy · 13/10/2026 17:11

@florafoxtrot Does that make her 9? That all sounds very normal for her age (good for her). Are all the children in her class fluent readers? And what do you mean by fluent reader - do you mean reading Harry Potter books, or something easier? I know that the local primary where I live has real problems with literacy, with children moving up to secondary not being able to read. There are also literacy problems among older children at the secondary school. And I find it depressing that the most popular books among secondary school children here is apparently the Heartstopper series of cartoon-style books, which are the reading level of a 6 year old.

boobashka · 13/10/2026 17:23

Scrumptiouslyy · 13/10/2026 17:03

Learning history in French from a native French speaker is using French. Those Italian teenagers spoke near-fluent French. I spoke to the Italian girl in English, which was the second foreign language she was taught at school, and she wasn't far off fluency in that. How much do you think children who are taught French or Spanish (usually only one language, if that) in Scottish schools can say? How much can they read in the foreign language?

And in my view we shouldn't be throwing almost our whole culture onto the scrap heap and just reading a couple of modern books or modern poems with our young people. They should read a selection of great works from Chaucer onwards. Or maybe they could just read "Gone Girl" or whatever and be done with it? This is what dumbing-down of culture looks like, and our schools are facilitating it.

Languages learning is going down the pan in Scotland... 2 Higher French classes when I was at school 35 years ago. Now only 4 people doing higher French in my daughter's S5 year. But hey, more emphasis on learning Scots... 😭

MistressIggi · 13/10/2026 19:44

Languages are no longer compulsory. Many students don't choose to take them now (which I think is a shame but their choice I guess)

Klippa · 13/10/2026 20:58

boobashka · 13/10/2026 17:23

Languages learning is going down the pan in Scotland... 2 Higher French classes when I was at school 35 years ago. Now only 4 people doing higher French in my daughter's S5 year. But hey, more emphasis on learning Scots... 😭

We can all speak Scot’s if we get drunk enough!

Stillheere · 13/10/2026 21:24

I have a p4 who is not a fluent reader, and whom I’m trying to teach the times tables at home. I don’t think he could explain any of the angles. :-(

Dogman, Bunny versus Monkey, and the like: are they really a bridge to more fluent reading, or actually just a literacy dead end?!

Scrumptiouslyy · 14/10/2026 00:10

When you think about it, children have about 30 hours a week at primary school, for 7 years, less break times. So they have time to learn a hell of a lot. Far more than just reading fluently (I'm not even sure what that means - reading at what level?) and doing the times tables. (I see that in England they learn all the times tables up to 12x by the end of Y4 (so P5)). It would be interesting to know what they're doing with all that time. Especially as some children (and not just one or two with SN) are leaving primary school not able to read.

Scrumptiouslyy · 14/10/2026 00:20

@Stillheere Those books look grim - do you have to let your DC read them to you?! I'd go for a variety of books, including interesting non-fiction, maybe some Dick King Smith books and other actual story books. With reading every day.

florafoxtrot · 14/10/2026 08:51

Scrumptiouslyy · 13/10/2026 17:11

@florafoxtrot Does that make her 9? That all sounds very normal for her age (good for her). Are all the children in her class fluent readers? And what do you mean by fluent reader - do you mean reading Harry Potter books, or something easier? I know that the local primary where I live has real problems with literacy, with children moving up to secondary not being able to read. There are also literacy problems among older children at the secondary school. And I find it depressing that the most popular books among secondary school children here is apparently the Heartstopper series of cartoon-style books, which are the reading level of a 6 year old.

Edited

She has just turned 8 and has read all the Harry Potter books over the last year. It is school that use that term - I understand it to mean that she reads without having to sound out words anymore. You are right in that not all the children in her class are reading at that level but she's certainly not the only one. I do agree with you that it is depressing that children are leaving primary school unable to read, however truthfully in those instances I believe there is more at play than just the curriculum.

Stillheere · 15/10/2026 02:40

Scrumptiouslyy · 14/10/2026 00:20

@Stillheere Those books look grim - do you have to let your DC read them to you?! I'd go for a variety of books, including interesting non-fiction, maybe some Dick King Smith books and other actual story books. With reading every day.

Doing my best, he’s naturally very sporty, and kindling a love of reading is really challenging! I think I took my eye off the ball during Covid perhaps

Ginny98 · 15/10/2026 09:45

florafoxtrot · 14/10/2026 08:51

She has just turned 8 and has read all the Harry Potter books over the last year. It is school that use that term - I understand it to mean that she reads without having to sound out words anymore. You are right in that not all the children in her class are reading at that level but she's certainly not the only one. I do agree with you that it is depressing that children are leaving primary school unable to read, however truthfully in those instances I believe there is more at play than just the curriculum.

It IS the curriculum.

Scotland has no requirement to use a systematic synthetic phonics programme, which is why Scottish children are so behind England in reading (Flora's daughter is at the expected standard for English schools, but is ahead of most Scottish children).

FruAashild · 15/10/2026 13:03

Dogman, Bunny versus Monkey, and the like: are they really a bridge to more fluent reading, or actually just a literacy dead end?!

My son was obsessed with these books when younger, and yet his teachers at secondary school in England say he's well above the expected reading level. I'm a great believer in letting kids read what they want (he also loved the Beano) to increase reading stamina whether that is graphic novels, football facts books or the Rainbow Fairies/Enid Blyton/Harry Potter (pick your preferred contentious literature). If you love what you read you will read more of it and when learning to read that's important. My English DDs were obsessed with Heartstopper and they got both good grades in GCSE English. FWIW there were kids at their (middle class catchment) secondary school who couldn't read when they left primary, it's something that happens in all education systems and it's about what happens at home as much as what happens at school. Synthetic Phonics alone isn't the answer to all reading difficulties (dyslexic society says 25% of children won't learn with Synthetic Phonics alone) and shouldn't be seen as a cure all. My children had phonics lessons in school in England but they all learnt to read with the (non-phonics) Biff, Chip and Kipperbooks as well.

There were also regular fights at their secondary school, including one where a teacher was injured as she tried to stop it. @Scrumptiouslyy seems to be determined to think everything bad about the Scottish system and everything good about other systems rather than accepting her kids didn't go to a good school (and possibly weren't that academic).

So, some more anecdotes.

First, when my eldest was at nursery one of the other parents complained to me that the nursery weren't teaching our 3 year olds how to read and write. I knew they were because DD1 was writing notes to me all the time. If her DC wasn't reading and writing it was probably because they weren't ready to yet or because they weren't reproducing it at home, not because nursery weren't teaching it to kids that were ready and interested. If I believed what my 14yo told me about school I'd think all he did was PE and have lunch. And yet I know from my other children they do more than that.

When I was at school in Scotland in the 80s my English teachers at the time said thst while we did a lot of literature at our school there generally wasn't an emphasis on literature in Scottish schools in comparison to A level literature. So it's not necessarily a recent issue that some schools in Scotland don't teach a lot of literature. And yet historically we had very high reading scores in the PISA assessments.

There's a poster on the 50 bookers thread on here who teaches English in a school in Italy, she's very critical of the way they teach literature, that long list shared above is inaccessible to most pupils and so they have to teach it using short paragraphs and teaching the mark scheme.

As far as the PISA rankings go there's a lot of discussion about England vs Scotland here but both are well above Wales which has an exam system very similar to England's but has PISA scores below the OECD average. England's change of focus since 2009 has put it on a similar footing to countries in Asia and ahead of most countries in Europe, they are chasing PISA scores as something easy to measure, that doesn't mean their approach is correct for a good broad education. In comparison, Scotland has 488 in reading, 467 in maths, and 491 in science. These are not actually bad scores. It is fourth in Europe for reading after England, Ireland and Estonia (and ahead of Italy). 15th in Europe for Maths between Italy and Germany and 9th in Europe for science between Begium and Czechia. It's dropping compared to our historic highs but we're not dropping as fast as the rest of the western world post Covid. However, PISA scores are just one part of teenage life, e.g. our teenagers (in both Scotland and England) are much likely to suffer depression than Dutch teenagers who have very low PISA rankings for reading.

Scottish education has issues, and Scottish people are probably more sensitive than most about falling down the rankings because historically we did so well. But it's not as bad as some posters keep insisting. And it will be correctable once the political will is there.

Swipe left for the next trending thread