Peter Murrell embezzlement trial

[Sunnnyday]

Peter Murrell is in court in Edinburgh today. This is for the preliminary hearing which was postponed from before the election. It will be interesting to see how the criminal proceedings proceed.

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/peter-murrell-arrives-at-court-ahead-of-hearing-on-embezzlement-charges/ar-AA23Ybuy?ocid=msedgntp&pc

What @guinnessguzzler said, this is the problem again and again, lack of checks and balances, cronyism in place of systems.

can only say well done police Scotland and clearly there wasn’t enough evidence to charge NS,
she wasn’t going to crack under pressure!

I think there are also questions to be asked about him being the chief exec for over 20 years. Nobody should be there that long - that’s just asking for complacency and issues to arise.

Especially with the link to Nicola Sturgeon - she was highly prominent for the majority of that time.

Between this, dodgy donations and the Covid contracts that were being handed about to friends and family there really needs to be a properly independent body set up who have oversight of taxpayer money being funnelled between folks who know each other well.

I’d also like to know what the position was previous to that.

I find it hard to believe that the finance committee only suddenly weren’t given access. I think it far more likely that the status quo of Murrell having full control (and therefore by proxy Sturgeon) was accepted by them for years, but then their positions changed when the in fighting began.

I’m not sure anyone who was part of the SNP higher ranks in those years is likely to come up smelling of roses particularly. Not necessarily criminal, but I think complacency and not adhering to the correct rules and protocols was standard play.

they shouldnt have delayed til after the election. the whole system is corrupt

Presumably though you knew whether or not family finances would stretch to an expensive new car? Even in families where spouses have separate finances each would have a general idea on what the other could afford

Most wives would have an idea if their husband had the funds for a new campervan - it's not like he bought a new bicycle and kept it on his mother's drive!

It was well known months ago that he had been charged and what he had been charged with. Don't try to make it sound as if it had been kept a secret from voters.

I don't think there was ever a question about where the money came from for the campervan. It was clearly bought with SNP funds. The embezzlement charge is about it being bought for Murrell's personal use, not the party's.

Swanning about social media exclaiming about what a great life she has. She’s escaped Scot free herself. It makes me sick.

No but once charged and having not yet been to trial, my understanding is that discussion online would risk contempt of court. Certainly we were reminded of that risk on here a few times. So, people couldn't discuss on social media, the media couldn't speculate, and the SNP could legitimately say that he hadn't been found guilty. All the while knowing he was going to plead guilty and that had he done so right before the election it would undoubtedly have affected the outcome. So no it wasn't a secret but postponing the hearing avoided the negative impact on the election and it shouldn't have been allowed.

Don’t pretend that the date wasn’t changed to be after the election because of the optics of it.

I'm not talking about online conversations or lack of said conversations.
Voters in Scotland were aware of the charges and their choice was still to vote for the SNP. Do not make it sound as if voters did not know what they were voting for.

When people are completely in thrall to one idea - Brexit, independence, etc - they literally do not care about the crimes their politicians are committing. They'll make excuses - he was only one person, just small beer, it was a one-off, the man probably had a mental illness, Nicola is wonderful so of course she didn't know, but above all - it doesn't matter because only one thing matters, the end goal of independence. However that end goal is achieved. Whatever is sacrificed along the way.

So Murrell was guilty, what a shocker but not as shocking that our ex leader didn’t know and didn’t seem to even wonder how they were able to afford £100k camper van.

I agree that it shouldn't have been allowed. But how much difference would it have made if the crime had been admitted to before the election? There are certainly people out there who voted SNP just because they've always voted SNP and who else is there to vote for? They vote for the people they know will win. They vote for the SNP without actually liking the SNP and without a real conviction in the sunny uplands of an independent Scotland. I don't know how many of those people there are, and whether this would have been enough to shift their apathetic SNP vote.

How could she not know. More lies from NS again. He’s taken the fall for her. It’s actually a bit sad. A man that should be enjoying his retirement without NS in his life going to jail. I left Scotland in 1997, got fed up with the way SNP people behaved at election times, attacking people at polling stations or throwing rocks when delivering election leaflets in Pollok.

The plea entering. Not the case. Do keep up.

Interesting article about how Police Scotland discovered and gathered evidence against Murrell

He’s not the victim in this.

The question of what she knew and how much is certainly one that needs answering, but he’s not some poor hard-done-by soul being set up to take the fall for something he didn’t do.

He is absolutely guilty of what he’s pled to. And very probably more. That other people (probably multiple other people) are also guilty doesn’t make it sad that he’s going to prison - he absolutely deserves it.

The details coming out now are horrific. Falsified documents in relation to the campervan, for example. Even at this stage I thought it might be possible that, for example, it was bought with campaigning in mind but without the proper authorisation, same with the cars, could they have been bought as a company car but in a unilateral decision rather than with correct sign off? But no, it's looking like it's all just properly dodgy, 'I want and I'll use someone else's money to get.'

I have to admit, aside from thinking it shows up really significant issues in the SNP, I am genuinely fascinated by what makes someone behave in this way. Is he a drug addict? Was he being blackmailed? What on earth would make you risk everything for a load of random tat? So utterly bizarre.

And yes @Sunnnyday I concede the SNP have so many loyal beyond the point of reason voters that the hearing going ahead as originally planned likely wouldn't have given rise to a completely different government but I do think it would have impacted the election result and I think it was deliberately moved to avoid that, which is very wrong.

Does anyone think that there is any way he did this without her knowing a thing?

I think it could happen.

i don’t think in this case it did, but it could.

They are wealthy people used to being gifted all sorts.

It also depends where the things bought - jewellery, cosmetics and the likes especially - ended up. If they were given to NS then she’d struggle to have any plausible deniability. Whereas if he was gifting them to other people then it’s possible. Some clever and manipulative men can have whole second lives hidden in plain sight.

I think in this instance many people knew (nobody seemed genuinely shocked enough by it imo), but I can see how it would be difficult to prove it wasn’t possible

NS now painting herself as a victim.
The other one has bells on, Nicky.

"Profound, personal trauma"

Do we look like our heeds button up the back?

I honestly do not know if she knew or not.

I’ve got my own thoughts on it, as have we all, but there is no real evidence of it, if there was then given the amount spent on the investigation she would have been charged as well.

The only thing I would say is that all the comments about not being able to afford it on his salary so therefore it must have been obvious are nonsense.

He earned over £120k a year and had done for a long time, there was no mortgage on their home and many aspects of daily living were subsidised.

That before you count property wealth and money from savings etc..

It is not hard to believe that someone of his age, position and status could afford these purchases.

None of that means she didn’t know of course but the reasoning is wrong.

Jeez they spent £2.6k on salt and pepper grinders!?!?! Talk about delusions of grandeur?! And when ordinary people had given them money from their pension or other low incomes expecting it to be spent on independence campaigning. Outrageous.