WT Actual F has happened to Scottish education under the SNP???

[YellowPixie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2vk9gm4e0o

Analysis has been done into the pass rates of SQA exams, looking at the total cohort of S4 pupils and Nat 5s, rather than just the ones entered in the exams.

Only 40% of S4 kids passed Nat 5 maths. 25% have a pass in biology which they say is the most popular science. What a fucking shambles - no wonder they want to scrap Nat 5s, they can then pretend that everyone's a winner and give all S4s an "achievement certificate" irrespective of whether or not they would know a fraction if it came up and slapped them.

I know people who have been unsuccessful in applying to English/Welsh universities purely due to having only six Nat 5s. But the bigger issue with only having six is restricting study breadth so soon, and for many this will also narrow their higher choice. Not everyone is able to crash Highers so you are potentially making choices that will restrict subjects to study at university in S3.

@YellowPixie ye obviously didnae get telt ower muckle aboot colonialism at thon schuil

I'm not British so I come from a very different school system but my two children have gone through the Scottish system (youngest currently in S6) and what strikes me most about how history is taught here is that at no point can Scottish school children aquire a knowledge and understanding of how all individual bits and trends of history fit together. Everything is taught in isolated chunks. Unless a child has an interest in history or parents who talk about it they'll leave school without a clue how all the different eras and events relate to each other.

Because you always speak and write like that, don’t you? It’s totally parochial. Teaching kids that it’s ok to write and speak like that, even though it’s not understandable outwith Scotland and many people living in Scotland wouldn’t have a clue about “Scots” either. And they waste ££££ printing material written in this “language”

Agreed the pushing of Scot’s as a language like the new sign posts in Gaelic is just ridiculous.
I don’t let my kids do their Scot’s homework who wants to talk in colloquial Scot’s in 2025.
Ridiculous!

We never had any written homework, but they did have the annual Scots Poetry learning. My dd’s best friend’s Indian parents were totally bewildered, they never heard people speak that way. Very exclusionary.

@Dissimilitude I've no intention of impressing anyone.

If you have issues with the content taught in school can you provide a list of what you think would be more appropriate?

Why should there be less about colonialism and slavery? What balance should there be - what could possibly be more balanced?
What topics would help children understand history, learn critical thinking skills and how events have shaped current society? These topics are intrinsic to the annoying Scottish history which children are forced to endure in the country of Scotland.
For balance I'm sure you'd like your curriculum to feature non- white and marginalised groups ?

Why just Scots, not Doric?

@YellowPixie

"Because you always speak and write like that, don’t you? It’s totally parochial. Teaching kids that it’s ok to write and speak like that, even though it’s not understandable outwith Scotland and many people living in Scotland wouldn’t have a clue about “Scots” either. And they waste ££££ printing material written in this “language” "

I can speak and write like that and it's a bonus to be able to use more words, like outwith, a great Scots word hardly used outwith Scotland

I totally disagree with Burns or Scots texts being part of an English syllabus. Scots and Doric should be separate subjects.

In terms of colonialism and slavery - we learnt about this in primary school. I remember a term spent studying the Romans and also about the vikings and their slave raids up and down the coast.

@SkiingonKaraSea I agree that there should be a language qualification that allows for Scots including Doric as a first option and then English as a second compulsory option. Unfortunately there's no room for more in the curriculum so putting them together is a compromise. Many of my parents generation were belted for using Scots, Doric or Gaelic and as a result were put off education for life. Allowing people to learn in their own language can only be a good thing. There's a huge amount of Scots literature including Burns, who is widely seen as at least an equal to Keats, so it's hardly parochialism.

I think this bit is a problem and that's what the curriculum review is looking at.

What do you mean ‘no more room in the curriculum’ though? They can study it instead of French, or Chemistry, or History. English would still be a necessary compulsory subject but Scottish languages could be another Nat 5 option.

@SkiingonKaraSea that's a great idea and think it's the gold standard, it's already the model for Gaelic medium. Unfortunately I think it's likely to be decried as woke nonsense by the usual suspects!!!

I can speak and write like that and it's a bonus to be able to use more words, like outwith, a great Scots word hardly used outwith Scotland

Is it bollocks. When on earth are you ever going to be in the situation of it being appropriate to write "aboot" rather than about in a job/professional context? Schools are there to prepare kids for life, for getting a job or getting into further education. If you want your kids to learn this made up mish mash of dialects then do it on your own time.

There are lots and lots of Scottish-specific words, law vocabulary is full of them. But most of them are used when there is not another direct equivalent. Outwith being a good example. But this whole idea that it's perfectly fine to sit your Higher exams writing "aboot yon buke" (or buik, booke, whatever) is just ridiculous. It does however play into the SNP overarching narrative that Scotland is so completely different from the rest of the UK that independence is the only answer. Teaching this sort of nonsense that wrtiting in Scots is valid will have Scottish children laughed out of interviews anywhere else in the UK, or world, or just in Scotland where 99.99% of people do not speak/write/communicate like this. It's a total waste of everyone's time.

Allowing people to learn in their own language

Yes, because there are vast swathes of children growing up all over Scotland where they only ever hear Scots written or spoken. 🙄

But it would be a subject choice and as long as it is sufficiently academically rigorous those who dislike it or feel it is pointless could simply not choose it. To be honest, I am surprised it isn’t already an option, but the SQA subject choice range is actually fairly limited. Hence private schools using the Scottish exams often offer the odd GCSE.

It’s just the SNP trying to engineer their own agenda of independence.
Most people think it is pointless. It’s 2025. Let’s move forward with a bit more STEM
a bit less Scot’s nonsense.

Gaelic writing on police car and ambulances gives me the absolute rage. The reason this is done in other countries where a mix of languages is spoken is to ensure the most rapid reaction of people around so they get out of the way. It’s not just to signify “difference”. Absolutely not needed in Scotland except maybe the Western Isles.

I’m originally from SW Scotland and my DF’s normal speech wouldn’t have been one million miles from Scots, he’s certainly have been able to explain what all the words in a Burns poem meant without having to look them up. I considered a degree in English and Scottish Literature and I don’t see any harm in it being added to the curriculum as long as it wasn’t made a compulsory subject.

I spent some time living in Wales and I would say the national identity there is quite strongly tied to the Welsh language, Scottish identity is not tied to language in the same way. However, given the SNP, the lack of Nat 5 in ‘Scot’s’ is pretty surprising as I would have thought this would have been pushed more.

I don’t think it would be widely chosen as an option, especially if you only have four to choose from.

I do think choice especially in S5/6 can be a massive issue, but this has always been the case. Classes can only run if there is a minimum number wishing to take the course - when I was in S6 there were only 2 of us wanting to do SYS French, so we were joined by another 2 from the local Catholic school to make the minumum of 4. Similar things happen at the school the kids are at now, but we are on the edges of Glasgow with 2 other large secondaries very close by.

It's not an option for kids who are at school in rural areas where the next nearest high school is 45 minutes or an hour away.

I had a 10 miles bus journey to school so the idea of taking courses at another school was out of the question - unlike my DS who, as a
city kid, had a huge range plus other subjects available at a nearby college. My uni friend did SYS Latin which had just been dropped as a subject at my school when I started.

@YellowPixie it's just silly to argue that people don't use Scots. It's used continuously by people who aren't in professional jobs and don't need to be seen as polite. Go to any building site, small shop, football match. It's used by men across the country, granted it's peppered by swearing! Women don't use Scots as often in a work or social context. It's not seen as Naice. You just don't realise you're using it, like when you used outwith in your post.
As for Gaelic there are so many people in Scotland who were brought up as native speakers, but you'd never know. These are secret languages and they are hidden away as something shameful. They shouldn't give you the rage.
I get the rage when I go on the trains and trams and the only languages I hear are English. We can't even have French and Spanish on there to help tourists like they do in other countries. So we aren't great at languages in Scotland. But Gaelic is not a reason to be angry. Try using an app to translate the road signs- you'll find out what place names really mean and it all makes sense. You'll stop fashing at An Lochan Uaine when you know it means the Green Loch, and Inbhir Nis means Nessiemouth.