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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

WT Actual F has happened to Scottish education under the SNP???

256 replies

YellowPixie · 29/12/2024 20:49

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2vk9gm4e0o

Analysis has been done into the pass rates of SQA exams, looking at the total cohort of S4 pupils and Nat 5s, rather than just the ones entered in the exams.

Only 40% of S4 kids passed Nat 5 maths. 25% have a pass in biology which they say is the most popular science. What a fucking shambles - no wonder they want to scrap Nat 5s, they can then pretend that everyone's a winner and give all S4s an "achievement certificate" irrespective of whether or not they would know a fraction if it came up and slapped them.

Teenagers sitting at individual wooden desks in rows, writing on a piece of paper in an exam hall

'Very worrying' pass rates for maths and science in Scotland

Education experts have found low attainment in subjects like maths and science in Scotland this year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2vk9gm4e0o

OP posts:
SkiingonKaraSea · 15/01/2025 20:58

It can help the child in question if the police are involved. In primary they are below the age of criminal responsibility so won’t be charged but could be referred onto other agencies for support, encourage the education authority to ‘up their game’ in what they put in place including TAs, give then time out of school for more intensive 1:1 support, or involve social services support possibly for the whole family. It may also provide evidence of need for parents pushing for a specialist placement. Of course you wouldn’t be told any of that.

Skiptogetfit · 15/01/2025 21:21

I think the police can help with a one off incident, but when a child is attacking day after day, being charged day after day, they are well aware that it’s wrong but simply don’t care, that’s when the authorities are totally helpless.

Manch2024 · 15/01/2025 21:57

SkiingonKaraSea · 15/01/2025 20:58

It can help the child in question if the police are involved. In primary they are below the age of criminal responsibility so won’t be charged but could be referred onto other agencies for support, encourage the education authority to ‘up their game’ in what they put in place including TAs, give then time out of school for more intensive 1:1 support, or involve social services support possibly for the whole family. It may also provide evidence of need for parents pushing for a specialist placement. Of course you wouldn’t be told any of that.

Thanks, yes, I am actually a teacher so knew it would be from a concern point of view.

We've had three weeks with no physical assaults so (touch wood) it seems to have had an impact, I'm just hoping it continues.

Manch2024 · 15/01/2025 21:57

*Just to clarify, others have been hurt in that time but my child hasn't.

SkiingonKaraSea · 15/01/2025 22:36

Skiptogetfit · 15/01/2025 21:21

I think the police can help with a one off incident, but when a child is attacking day after day, being charged day after day, they are well aware that it’s wrong but simply don’t care, that’s when the authorities are totally helpless.

Sometimes it can take multiple police referrals to get help.

The other group that could cause some impact is the teachers’ unions.

WearyAuldWumman · 15/01/2025 22:58

stargirl1701 · 31/12/2024 18:54

I think what has shocked me most (in curricular terms) was learning that teachers are now teaching N5 and Higher classes simultaneously. All of the children are in the same room.

When I was at secondary school, this would've been unthinkable. My CSYS English class had 6 pupils in it but the teacher was only teaching CSYS English.

I am a primary school teacher so I know how to differentiate. My current P2 class has children reading fluently and children not yet able to decode a cvc word. But, at the N5/H/AH level children should surely be in a class where the teacher is only teaching one course.

Bi-level classes aren’t unusual - it’s down to HTs trying to save money.

Heck, I recall a young colleague being in tears because an idiot HT expected her to cope with H, Int 2 and Int 1 in one class. (She was the only specialist for that subject in the school…apart from the HT.) Yes, the was pre CfE.

Someone mentioned unions. The EIS usually just rolls over, in my experience. The SSTA is a bit better. The other unions try, but are too small in Scotland to make much of a difference.

sweetkitty · 15/01/2025 23:20

Another area which infuriates me is school dinners, big hoo ha made that they are now free for P1-P5s. I would like to take those dinners and serve them to council members and MSOs I wonder if they would think they are acceptable.

Today chicken curry 4 little bits of processed chicken and some rice. A P7 was licking the plate. Or 6 wedges and a tiny plain burger. To the value of £3.25 too. I appreciate high school is a bit better. I buy snacks for a few of my children every week as I’m sure a lot of other teachers do.

SkiingonKaraSea · 15/01/2025 23:28

The EIS usually just rolls over

Not always. They were strongly advocating for school lockdowns, face masks and teachers not having to teach during the lockdowns during the pandemic.

MistressIggi · 15/01/2025 23:35

Teachers not having to do video teaching from their own homes on their own equipment. Not the same as not teaching.
Lots of issues around the above.

sweetkitty · 15/01/2025 23:49

Ps I was in school EVERY day during lockdown, our kids were seen as vulnerable so the school was open. Used to get annoyed with people assuming we were all off twiddling our thumbs. There was no one to help home school my kids.

SkiingonKaraSea · 16/01/2025 00:41

sweetkitty · 15/01/2025 23:49

Ps I was in school EVERY day during lockdown, our kids were seen as vulnerable so the school was open. Used to get annoyed with people assuming we were all off twiddling our thumbs. There was no one to help home school my kids.

School should never have been closed and the unions pushed for them to be closed longer than in England. Also pushed for children to have to wear face coverings when the evidence, even in the Scottish Government reports at the time, was they increase cross contamination. There was a lot of schools not providing teaching - a few online worksheets is not teaching. Why did you need to ‘help home school’ your kids if the teaching was so good?

MistressIggi · 16/01/2025 06:53

Well generally small children still need supervision and support to access the internet. And teachers children can have support needs same as anyone else's. I taught for most of a year as a person in two of the riskier categories without a vaccine. I remember how relieved I was when the vaccine letter arrived. Schools were open at times when all offices were shut.
Do we really need to dredge up this old ground again though?

SkiingonKaraSea · 16/01/2025 07:51

It was another example of the Scottish Government placing ideologies above children’s education., which still impacts them today.

YellowPixie · 16/01/2025 07:53

School meals - yes, there are huge issues around this. My kids are older now but my youngest fell into the group which was offered the universal free school meals. In a school where hardly any kids were on free school meals. Lots of issues around the logistics - the school has one hall space which is used for PE, assembly and lots of other things along with lunch. There was not enough space to accommodate all the children in the hall at the same time, they had to do separate sittings for p1-3, p4-5, p6-7. Children who had packed lunch had to eat outside, unless it was pouring and if it was wet, they had to sit cramped on benches. Portion size was the same for a tiny 5 year old just starting p1 and a 12 year old in P7. Quality was poor, and with the rising prices of food we've seen in the past few years it can only have got worse.

Unions - they are doing their job by being a strong force for their members, they are no different from other unions in that respect. During the pandemic there was lots going on and yes at many times it did feel that the unions were calling the shots and it was Larry Flanagan deciding when schools would or not go back. But that was Sturgeon's/Swinney's fault for allowing that position to develop.

It was also Sturgeon and Swinney's faults for allowing each school/local authority to do their own thing when it came to online teaching and lockdown learning. I'm sure some schools were amazing but ours were not. In the first lockdown March-summer there was nothing. Vague emails about looking at websites if you wanted or doing worksheets if you wanted but nothing was marked. School WAS closed and teachers WERE sitting at home twiddling their thumbs like the rest of us. In the after-Christmas lockdown things were slightly better as there was Teams communication and expectations that work was actually done, but no "teaching".

OP posts:
SkiingonKaraSea · 16/01/2025 08:08

One significant impact of those lockdowns that still persists today is that children who are out of school with ASN - there are a significant number of children who just cannot cope with the mainstream school environment and just cannot attend school - are ‘taught’ by being set work on Google classroom. As it was considered sufficient in lockdown, it is considered sufficient for these very vulnerable children now. Unmarked, no teacher input.

Skiptogetfit · 16/01/2025 09:24

Why should unions be responsible for getting us out of this mess?

Teacher have no power. They dare not state that the behavioural strategies they have been given don’t work as if they do they’ll be told they’re doing it wrong and it’s their fault.

Politicians have the power to change things But changing would be admitting they’re getting things wrong and they’d never do that.

Pupils have no power and will have to just keep sucking up a harrowing, violent school life that is equally distressing for ASN and non-ASN pupils.

Parents have no power as they are told by the education department that this is inclusion, a Scottish government policy and the only other options are home schooling or private.

It’s unions that can make a difference. Teachers can join together to have one voice to say no, this isn’t how I want to work, I have a right not to be assaulted at work, I ought to be allowed to remove children who cannot or do not want to learn from my classroom, I am not a psychiatric nurse and shouldn’t be expected to act as one. Teachers can strike until changes are made. That’s the only short term way out of here I can see. Well the other option is that a child is badly injured in an assault and a parent sues the government for failure to safeguard but no one wants to go down that route.

Manch2024 · 16/01/2025 13:41

YellowPixie · 16/01/2025 07:53

School meals - yes, there are huge issues around this. My kids are older now but my youngest fell into the group which was offered the universal free school meals. In a school where hardly any kids were on free school meals. Lots of issues around the logistics - the school has one hall space which is used for PE, assembly and lots of other things along with lunch. There was not enough space to accommodate all the children in the hall at the same time, they had to do separate sittings for p1-3, p4-5, p6-7. Children who had packed lunch had to eat outside, unless it was pouring and if it was wet, they had to sit cramped on benches. Portion size was the same for a tiny 5 year old just starting p1 and a 12 year old in P7. Quality was poor, and with the rising prices of food we've seen in the past few years it can only have got worse.

Unions - they are doing their job by being a strong force for their members, they are no different from other unions in that respect. During the pandemic there was lots going on and yes at many times it did feel that the unions were calling the shots and it was Larry Flanagan deciding when schools would or not go back. But that was Sturgeon's/Swinney's fault for allowing that position to develop.

It was also Sturgeon and Swinney's faults for allowing each school/local authority to do their own thing when it came to online teaching and lockdown learning. I'm sure some schools were amazing but ours were not. In the first lockdown March-summer there was nothing. Vague emails about looking at websites if you wanted or doing worksheets if you wanted but nothing was marked. School WAS closed and teachers WERE sitting at home twiddling their thumbs like the rest of us. In the after-Christmas lockdown things were slightly better as there was Teams communication and expectations that work was actually done, but no "teaching".

I nearly had a nervous breakdown during lockdown! I certainly was not at home twiddling my thumbs.

Locallassie · 17/01/2025 07:35

Teachers are not striking again. We were largely not supported by the public last time and I can’t see that changing. We do not have the rights that you imagine. We certainly don’t have the right to refuse to teach a child or have them in our class. This I know from bitter experience and many assaults

PrimalLass · 17/01/2025 13:45

Politicians have the power to change things But changing would be admitting they’re getting things wrong and they’d never do that.

Another reason we need a change of government

PrimalLass · 17/01/2025 13:49

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 15/01/2025 12:40

The SNP's primary focus is, and always will be, independence, and this means that they have massively dropped the ball on their day job - governing Scotland for the benefit of Scottish people. Education is just one area out of many they have failed in, in my opinion.

Their incompetence has meant I've gone from yes to hell no.

PrimalLass · 17/01/2025 13:52

Though, you lost me at "crappy Scottish poets"

The English curriculum has been over Scottished. The texts are boring and parochial and would in no way prepare kids for an English degree.

Manch2024 · 28/01/2025 20:26

Yes, what will be the outcome though as exclusions aren't allowed I believe?

I'm not sure what happened at Bannerman High.

Also, the children will be on the receiving end of violence - this is always forgotten but of course, they have no one protecting them.

Skiptogetfit · 28/01/2025 20:33

Manch2024 · 28/01/2025 20:26

Yes, what will be the outcome though as exclusions aren't allowed I believe?

I'm not sure what happened at Bannerman High.

Also, the children will be on the receiving end of violence - this is always forgotten but of course, they have no one protecting them.

Hopefully the Scottish government see how insane taking away the ultimate consequence of permanent exclusion is and do a u-turn. Unlikely but there is always the hope. What will happen is the Scottish government will give the teachers a booklet to the teachers about where they are getting it wrong and how all behaviours is communication. Which is presumably the gaslighting referred to in the article.

SkiingonKaraSea · 28/01/2025 21:06

Permanent exclusion will just mean they are moved to another mainstream school to cause havoc there. They need to reopen the specialist units needed to give these kids a chance. They will be expensive but cheaper than court and prison costs that they may otherwise incur.