What is going on with deferrals?

[definitedeferral]

I'm wondering if any parents or teachers are noticing a growing issue with the number of children deferring in Scotland, and the impact on other children?

I'm referring to the change as of 2023 which means any child who is not age 5 at the start of P1 can defer and will now be entitled to another year's nursery funding. My child started school this year and is youngest in the year (Oct birthday), which came as a shock. I don't know exact numbers but there are numerous kids in the class who are already, or soon to be, 6 (ie they've all been deferred). So, in some cases over a year older than my child.

My kid is keeping up in terms of academic work, but on an emotional level it has been hard. They are mocked for liking "babyish" things. Their peers seem much older and are into different things, they're more confident and obviously ahead in a lot of the school work. My child has been in nursery for 4 years and everyone told us they were ready for school, so deferral wasn't really considered.

I now feel naive. Had I realised how many people were deferring and the disadvantage this would place on my kid, I would have done the same. Are we now at a place where you have to defer because so many other parents are? Not because your child isn't ready or out of genuine concern. Perhaps our case is isolated so interested to know if anyone else has found this too. Obviously might become more obvious as the rule change is very recent.

TIA

Yes and no. Those of us who have worked with P1 know the ridiculous singing and dancing required to get some kids to have basic phonological and numeracy awareness. What you hope is that kids come in with understanding of these so that you can build on them easily with actual reading, writing, arithmetic.

Take phonics. More time in nursery/older kids starting school doesn’t tend to mean kids come in able to read (though it sometimes does, and that’s great). But it does tend to mean they come in aware that sun starts with the ‘s’ sound and rhymes with fun and that means that teaching them the reading and writing that they’re expected to know by the end of P1 is a heck of a lot easier. But equally good nurseries already do (and all nurseries should) provide opportunities for learning phonics for those kids who are showing a keen interest. Not all are at age 4, or 5, or even 6.

This is sad and I'm sorry this has been your daughter's experience.

There is a loss of innocence when starting school, which I do find sad. It's different from nursery.

But from the point of view of deferred kids, if they didn't defer, they would be a few months younger than your daughter and also experiencing this. Which I believe is why a lot of parents choose to defer.

Somebody always has to be the youngest. I do take on board what you are saying about the potential gap being larger with deferred kids though.

I don't know what the answer is. The only thing I can think of is to make school starting age 6, rather than 5, to give them all an extra year of being kids and having the innocence of nursery. They are still so young and shouldn't be mocked for liking Peppa Pig

I hope your daughter will be ok and I'm sure she will be xx

When I was at school deferral wasn't really a thing.

One of my friends was the oldest in the year with a February birthday and she had been "deferred" (although I don't think we'd used it even heard of that word back then. I think she possibly repeated kindergarten as she struggled academically.

She struggled academically the whole way through school. Socially she fit in with our year group fine, was not noticeably older or anything.

At the other end of the scale, I had a February born friend who did not defer, so 12 months younger than the other girl. She was academically very strong.

There was also an April born girl in our year, so 14 months younger than the deferred girl. Her family moved from England in early primary which I'm guessing is why she ended up in our cohort as by Scottish rules she would have been in the year below. She was also very strong academically and is now very successful.

I'm generally pro deferral as I feel 4 is too young to start school.

And I do feel that someone has to be the youngest. I really feel for the kids like OP's daughter who is now the youngest and October born.....but imagine there was a job deferred Jan or feb birthday in the class....the gap would be even wider. Somebody is always going to be the youngest in the year. But I don't know the answer, other than the school age changing from 5 to 6, which I think would be a good move.

I'm a late feb birthday and always felt younger than my peers & lost a lot of friend when they were able to go to bars & student union & I wasn't 19 for almost another year.

So I deferred my feb born daughter. Beyond glad I did. Although she was intellectually able to go to school, she wasn't emotionally ready. Each parents choice.
Personally I would have them in nursery until 6, my sister a teaching assistant and some primary one kids can't button coats or go to the loo without help.
It's too young.
But nursery costs and school doesn't ...

But, if not, in future parents will have to consider all the needs of their particular child; AND the levels of deferrals amongst the rest of the class.

That's always been a factor though? We certainly looked at the number of deferred children our feb born could have gone to school with had we not deferred him.

We considered the following:
Class size
Ratio of boys to girls
Number of deferred children
Existing Friendships
Sports
Academic readiness
Emotional readiness

We ended up choosing deferral because the class would be bigger, much more balanced in terms of girls and boys and full of existing friends if we did. The fact that in a small class (village school), 40 percent would be a full year older than our dc had we sent him without deferral was also a factor.

Obviously getting that information is probably much easier in a small village than a town/city.

@SkeletonBatsflyatnight I think there's a glaring omission from your list; whether your family can afford another year of childcare and/or whether you will get a place.

Many parents perform a balancing act with work and childcare, and I think your list has been written from quite an unrealistic and privileged position. In an ideal world; maybe.
I don't agree that considering the deferral rates has been a major consideration for most parents historically. The figures support what I'm saying in terms of the increases in deferral over recent years - a decade ago a few deferrals in a class would have little bearing on parents' decisions for their own child surely (if they were even aware of it). Now, half the school roll deferring most certainly will.

We are in a village. We are fairly new and don't know every set of parents. Certainly not well enough to go round asking everyone if they're deferring their kid. I think that's unrealistic in all but the tiniest of communities.

As mentioned I've probably been naive to how common deferral was. I hope this thread can be useful for parents in future who might need to factor this in.

I have to say at school application time it was very much a major topic of conversation in the nursery playground where we are. I could have told you who was deferring (pretty much everyone who could in our school, apart from one in three years) any school nursery child who wasn’t getting a place as out of catchment.

Also if you are in catchment you get a place in Scotland so that’s not as much of a concern. Apart from the central belt councils have historically followed schools recommendations so if they say need another year in nursery to develop social skill then that’s what they get.

I think there's a glaring omission from your list; whether your family can afford another year of childcare and/or whether you will get a place.

It's a list of factors we considered, based off conversations with a variety of people. The two things you mention weren't issues for us. My deferred child is a late feb birthday so we had no issues securing him another year of funding. Plus the preschool we put him to had virtually the same hours as school so costs were irrelevant (to us) because if we needed wrap around care, we still needed wrap around when he started school.

The deferral rate absolutely has been a topic of discussion. I've been in a Scotland wide facebook group about it since 2019 (the year dc1 could have started school) and I barely use facebook. I'm not Scottish and so had no clue how the system worked until I started mixing with other mums. It was a regular topic of conversation even when they were babies at toddler groups which then continued in the preschool playground. There was an assumption that we would defer because that's what you do if you can. Across multiple primary schools I know of 2 Jan/Febs who weren't and at least one set of parents regrets that decision as secondary approaches.

Maybe people were talking about it in 2019 but I'd still say that's fairly recent!

In any case the point I'm trying (seemingly failing) to make is that whilst Jan/Feb deferrals have been commonplace and up for discussion for some time, Aug-Dec birthdays have not. From 2014-2018 it was estimated that less than 5% of pupils with birthdays Aug-Dec deferred in Scotland. Maybe groups talked about it, but hardly anyone was actually doing it, so the effects would not have translated to reality, until more recently when things changed.

A steady rise in these figures is now being reported (and we have found this personally) with up to 50% of Aug-Dec birthdays deferring in some parts of the country, this is a stark change in the landscape.

www.gov.scot/publications/deferred-entry-primary-school-statistics/pages/2/

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Also if you are in catchment you get a place in Scotland so that’s not as much of a concern

I meant a place in nursery for an additional year. We were unable to send DC to school nursery initially as they didn't have enough days with availability to suit our working pattern. Getting full time nursery places near us is difficult at private ones too. This is a problem all over, if the news is to be believed. I know parents who've had to change jobs because they can't get a nursery place. I would think there will be even less places now with all the deferrals.

I meant a place in nursery for an additional year. Kids already in nursery get prioritised, though. It’s more of an issue for the younger ones coming in.

100% this. It's only better off families who can even consider it, or those with a stay at home parent.

We simply couldn't comprehend another year of private nursery fees it was crippling us financially. We couldn't use the funded hours as what the council nursery could offer wouldn't fit our working patterns (shifts + commuting) and we had no other options, such as grandparents to plug the gap. So deferring was entirely unaffordable for us. We went from £1000 a month nursery bill to £250 for breakfast after/school club.

I haven’t read the whole thread but agree it’s just another thing the Scottish government hasn’t thought through. It’s ridiculous to have such a large age gap between year groups where the older children are over a year and half older than the younger children . If you move to England you will be put into the birth year school group. If you defer in England they even make people skip reception sometimes and it’s just not allowed ok most circumstances.
P1 is just play based anyway. So if they want to change the age change it for everyone. Scotland is falling behind in education and this is just part of the general slide.

Late to the thread, but I agree that the deferral policy is really frustrating.

"Someone has to be the youngest" is a wholly disingenuous argument. There is a huge difference between a class with a 12-month spread of ages and an 18-month spread of ages.