What is going on with deferrals?

[definitedeferral]

I'm wondering if any parents or teachers are noticing a growing issue with the number of children deferring in Scotland, and the impact on other children?

I'm referring to the change as of 2023 which means any child who is not age 5 at the start of P1 can defer and will now be entitled to another year's nursery funding. My child started school this year and is youngest in the year (Oct birthday), which came as a shock. I don't know exact numbers but there are numerous kids in the class who are already, or soon to be, 6 (ie they've all been deferred). So, in some cases over a year older than my child.

My kid is keeping up in terms of academic work, but on an emotional level it has been hard. They are mocked for liking "babyish" things. Their peers seem much older and are into different things, they're more confident and obviously ahead in a lot of the school work. My child has been in nursery for 4 years and everyone told us they were ready for school, so deferral wasn't really considered.

I now feel naive. Had I realised how many people were deferring and the disadvantage this would place on my kid, I would have done the same. Are we now at a place where you have to defer because so many other parents are? Not because your child isn't ready or out of genuine concern. Perhaps our case is isolated so interested to know if anyone else has found this too. Obviously might become more obvious as the rule change is very recent.

TIA

I agree with this. The current arrangement could lead to greater inequality.

If the idea is to start formal schooling a bit later (and therefore finish school at/almost 18 as in many other countries) then would be better to move the cut off to say October and keep the 12 month age range.

School age is laid out in the Education (Scotland) Act 1980 as five years old. And the date at which they must start school is the ‘school commencement date’ which can vary but is basically the start of the academic year in August. This Act also states:

(3)A child who does not attain the age of five years on a school commencement date shall, for the purposes of section 31 of this Act, be deemed not to have attained that age until the school commencement date next following the fifth anniversary of his birth.

The law on ‘deferrals’ hasn’t changed, the only difference is nursery funding.

Does anyone know when and why it was decided that children who were born between end of August and February would start school before they reached school age?

But it can never be fair. There is always a youngest in the class deferrals or not.

Another angle:-

I was the youngest, just made it in to that year group by a couple of days. It was awful, some of class mates were 11 months older and so much more advanced and intimidatingly taller than me.

I was constantly a year behind and felt so left out when all my school friends were joining swimming club, Brownies, youth club etc as I was always the one too young to join and by the time I was able to join, my school friends had all moved on to the next exciting thing.

My Mum used to ask the organisers/teachers if I could join a bit early as I was that kid left out of everything but they always said no.

But the issue is that some parents (mostly the middle class parents) are deferring to make sure their child has as much advantage as possible. And some parents aren’t deferring, which leaves an almost 18 month age difference rather than a 12 month age difference.

it would be so bad if it was the premature children or children who were showing learning difficulties. But often the children who are deferring already have the advantage of wealthy families who are engaged with their learning and aren’t “behind” in any way.

@Teeh some parents might be deferring for advantage but that's definitely not the case for many parents either.
The kids being deferred currently (and last year when it was brought in) are also children who were toddlers or recently born in covid lockdowns. The early years group are still some of the most effected as it was completely disregarded that this early years socialisation and development were key.

This age cohort has already been detrimentally impacted with speech and language referrals up significantly in comparison to before covid (the deferral extension only came in last year). It has a higher number of children still not potty trained when they reach school etc etc etc.

Most parents I speak to about deferral have done to help their child because the starting point otherwise is much further behind due to lockdowns. Speaking to DS1 teacher they are having to go back much further in terms of the basics and starting point. So it's not necessarily for middle class parents to give their children an advantage it's for parents to be assured their child has the same starting point that those did prior to covid as the impacts are still seen and felt in this age cohort.

In my area its the school nurseries which have a larger number of children being deferred not the private nurseries.

Those using private nurseries probably can't suck up the cost of an extra year, hence being less likely to defer. There's lots of reasons but this will be a significant consideration for some families. It certainly was for my family. Many of the private nurseries near me don't take the la funding.

There could also be some very serious consequences when you have classes with 14yr old and 16yr olds, who start to embark on relationships. This has always happened but will be more so with the deferals facilitating more mixing of ages.

Also for sport in the teens you notice with my eldest son's football team, at 13yrs old some are the size of fully grown men and some still look like little boys. For the smaller ones it doesn't do much for their self confidence but it raises the chance of serious injury in sport at school when you've got 14yr old and 16yr old in the same cohort.

Non school teams are by age surely?
I would think the deferred children could be pretty bored by yr 7.

Does anyone know when and why it was decided that children who were born between end of August and February would start school before they reached school age?

I don't know the answer to that @GillBeck but I wonder if local councils started to be able to make their own decisions?
I am a late November birthday and started in the august before I turned 5 in 1970.
My mum's friend had a daughter exactly a year older and she started the same time as me as they were Glasgow council and her birthday was after their cut off date

Non school teams are by age, but my point was at 13yrs old there's a huge mix of physical development, this will be even more pronounced in school sports where it's done by school year group and you potentially have players competing across 2yr, e.g in S1 you'll have 11yr olds and 13yrs olds. My son was 6ft1 at 13, is it really okay for him to play on the same school team as 11yr olds if I had deferred him? This would be allowed currently rules where you play with your year group for school fixtures.

It's all an absolute mess and that is down to the inconsistency of it all. There needs to be a cut off and a sensible exceptions policy. If there is a real, genuine need due to Covid then the entire boundary needs to be changed.

A significant number of parents in my school don't speak English well enough to navigate the system. Many of the Scottish-born parents don't have much of an understanding either, really.

The quality of education and staff in my school's feeder nurseries has gone rapidly downhill. 100% freeflow in nursery is a disaster. I was shocked when I visited in the spring to visit the new intake of P1s. There needs to be (appropriate) group times, story times and input.

Quite honestly, the more difficult the child, the less likely the staff are to recommend deferral.

The government have effectively created a two tier system.

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It’s an absolutely appalling policy - there is no way it should be possible to have an 18 month difference within a class, and I absolutely would be kicking up a stink if my son was in a class with a child more than a year older than him.

My younger one is a November birthday and was in a composite with P2s last year - so potentially a 3 year gap. He was (and still is) fine, one of the more confident kids in the class, doing well academically as well.

We judged it on the nursery cohort as much as anything, he was mostly friends with the kids who were going up to school rather than those staying at nursery.

Also, classic younger sibling, he'd been counting down until he could join big sis at school so wouldn't have been pleased to defer!

I'd be more on the fence with a Jan/Feb birthday but from various mum friends a lot play it by ear with their kids' playmates at nursery. I know one late Jan birthday who was technically due in March didn't defer because he's actually at the taller end of the cohort and most of his nursery friends were definitely going to school.

In leafy bits of East Dunbartonshire I feel like most of the middle class parents deferring had kids who were heading down a diagnosis pathway rather than just being "young" in the year.

Having started school with my older one in England the flexibility offered by the Scottish system (both start date and work covered) is much better for kids than the more rigid English system. Both of mine have been allowed to work with the other year in the composite and in the older one's P4/5 class the maths work is very widely differentiated.

What would you do if your child was in a composite class then?!

Around here composites are very common with most being P1-P3 then P4-P7......... so children are in the same class with 1 teacher with 3-4 year age gap......

Yeah, I’d not be sending my child to a school with three age groups in one class

😂 composite classes are common outside major cities!
The village schools rarely have enough of a intake to cover a full year group!

Yeah, I went to one. Which is why I’d never send my child to one

But large areas of Scotland (by land mass) this is the set up there isn't a school within 50 miles which doesn't have composite classes outside the central belt/major city. It's one thing to apply out of catchment it's another to be serious miles away!

Massive increase in P1 deferrals in my rural school and agree that it’s mainly professional and “middle class” parents.

My eldest son is now in S3 so started school before this but even so there is a wide age range in his intake and he, with a July birthday, was the second youngest in his primary class!

Now in S3, there is a range of physical and emotional differences and social interests between himself and deferred boys. Although his sports clubs are by year of birth, his school sports, sports days etc are not and physically the differences are stark. Im not looking forward to when some start driving.

I agree with other posters who have said it’s another change by government that has not been thought through.

@Ginny98 but that's the point, it is and will happen.

So you have the year group

A 1st march 2018 to z 28 feb 2019. But now we also have. A born 1st march 2017-B start date august 2017 all in that year. If the parents chose to defer.

As I said I actually love the premise of let them grow, and fully support the extra funded year at nursery, but only if it's for all.

As I look at it panning out i do not think the teachers, or the parents were prepared for the reality of it.

The child who turned 6 on the first day of primary one. Sat with the child who won't turn 5 until February. So the teachers move the 6 year old onto the primary two work. So the wee four year old feels behind. The six year old feels promoted. The primary twos feel demoted. They suddenly have a primary one.

The system is absolutely broken

I completely agree.

And not even on the grounds of differing ability (you’ll always get that, even within a standard 12-month spread class) just the very idea of a child playing rugby against someone 18 months older.

Or from the point of view of the older child - being the first in your class to get your period, or grow a moustache. Awful. Although this seems less likely in areas where deferring is becoming the norm.

No-one wants their child to be at the extreme end of any age gap, so the 18 month difference seems crazy

I don’t know any primary school that does not have composite classes at least some of the time. The up side is they are capped at 25 instead of 33.

But in terms of ability there is actually not much more spreading across two year groups than in one. A friend has children from Early level to level three in her straight P7 class, and these abilities do not reflect age.

DD1, born In February, wasn't deferred. All my (middle class) baby mum friends did defer.

DD1 has been in composite classes, both with older cohorts and younger. She has done well academically and at her sport (outwith school). Currently in S6.

There were kids in her P1 class who were definitely well ahead of her academically as they were a year older than her and had an extra year of nursery. But it all levelled out pretty quickly.

She actually likes being one of the youngest in her year. Means that she can use the excuse of only being 16 for not going "clubbing" on the weekend which is not her idea of fun (unlike her mother!)