What is going on with deferrals?

[definitedeferral]

I'm wondering if any parents or teachers are noticing a growing issue with the number of children deferring in Scotland, and the impact on other children?

I'm referring to the change as of 2023 which means any child who is not age 5 at the start of P1 can defer and will now be entitled to another year's nursery funding. My child started school this year and is youngest in the year (Oct birthday), which came as a shock. I don't know exact numbers but there are numerous kids in the class who are already, or soon to be, 6 (ie they've all been deferred). So, in some cases over a year older than my child.

My kid is keeping up in terms of academic work, but on an emotional level it has been hard. They are mocked for liking "babyish" things. Their peers seem much older and are into different things, they're more confident and obviously ahead in a lot of the school work. My child has been in nursery for 4 years and everyone told us they were ready for school, so deferral wasn't really considered.

I now feel naive. Had I realised how many people were deferring and the disadvantage this would place on my kid, I would have done the same. Are we now at a place where you have to defer because so many other parents are? Not because your child isn't ready or out of genuine concern. Perhaps our case is isolated so interested to know if anyone else has found this too. Obviously might become more obvious as the rule change is very recent.

TIA

I think that's the problem though, it was fine when it was January and Feb kids deferring because at most there was a year between the eldest and the youngest but now there can be 18 months between the eldest and the youngest because everyone not 5 on the first day of school in p1 is allowed to defer now. 18months is a big difference even if it's more emotionally than academicly as the years progress

My November born (ie 4 when started) ended up working with the P2s in maths in P1 as he'd picked up a lot from older sister's online learning and her teaching him sums in the car while driving to stuff.

August born older child also did phonics with P2 in P1 as she'd done reception in England before we moved to Scotland and was working with/ahead of the P5s in her composite in P3 for maths.

There are always kids at different stages in a class, it's probably easier if the kid "promoted" is noticeably older!

Socially DD is right in her real year but academically she'd probably sit better in the year above, so I'd be surprised if the "leafy" parents choose to defer children unless they are struggling emotionally or academically

Those not 5 on school starting day have always been able to defer, it’s just the guaranteed nursery funding that’s changed.

Mine are 17 and 20 and I deferred both of them (both have November birthdays) many years ago. Both were given an extra paid year at nursery even back then. The extra year was at the discretion of the council. We had no other reason than ‘it’ll be better for them' for deferral but had no problems getting the extra year.

So it’s always been available as far back as I can remember it’s just the guarantee of a funded nursery place that’s changed. I think if your area has had lots of deferrals it’s down to the whole covid mess with children just not being quite ready. I think it’ll settle down in a few years and go back to just the odd deferral every year.

Oh, and mine were average in height in their class - not towering 6ft lads with muscles and body hair while still in P7 😂 Given that they were 3 months older than the next older I don’t know why everyone seems to think puberty changes would be so HUGE between the deferred and not deferred. Madness. The average grown height for a man is 5ft 9in so there’s not hoards of 6ftser roaming the P7 classrooms. I’m not saying that there’s never been a deferred child that’s sprouted in P7 over everyone else but I bet it’s a tiny number. Absolutely totsey.

Not even close to middle class here either. We're working class and poor as fuck.

This is incorrect the only aspect that has changed is late August to January birthdays no longer need to go through an approval system and make a case for deferral it can be applied for automatically along with funding as was the case for Jan and Feb birthdays.

Any parent of March to August in your example 2017 in order to defer they would have to appeal it to the LA and produce a case of why it was requested including statements from nursery etc.
This was the process before and remains in place. The liklihood of approval is based on the request type eg ASN.

My DD is Oct and due to go to school next year. She is so ready and I hadn’t even considered deferring her. There are 2 other Oct kids in her nursery and they are both deferring. Not because there’s any real need to, the parents have both said they believe it gives them “an academic advantage” to do so.

Personally I think if your kid is academic they will thrive regardless of an extra 12m in an early years nursery but they seem adamant that their kid is going to be advanced over mine.

This is incorrect. Since 1980 children have not been required to start school until the school commencement date (start of school year) after their fifth birthday. The only recent change has been funding of an extra year at nursery. Though some LA may not have realised this, you never needed to get approval to defer as long as you didn’t want nursery funding or a place in a LA nursery.

This mirrors my experience. I had friends with kids the same age suggest that DD1 would have a terrible time because she'd be the youngest, they didn't want that for their kids and that being deferred would give their's an advantage. (Which they were pretty smug about). None of which came to pass.

Interestingly my DS is Feb born. He was only born this year so I’ve got plenty time to worry about it but I’ve already had people ask if I’m deferring him. When I say oh i dont know it depends on him etc I’m often met with “oh he’ll be so behind if you don’t” and I just don’t buy in to this 1 size fits all idea. DD is more than ready and I don’t think early Oct puts her at any disadvantage at all compared to any summer born kids. It’s a matter of weeks for goodness sake.

I have a feeling that the deferring for advantage lot might not find it that easy long term unless their kids are pretty average or there are a lot in the class (which will dilute the advantage). For all that schools do differentiate my P5 has definitely found some of the reinforcement of stuff like 2 and 3 times table and column addition a bit boring and she's technically the middle of her age group (but had a year of Reception in England before moving and had an educated SAH parent for the home learning period). Lots of bright kids can be trouble when bored!

I agree with you. If everyone defers who is allowed to there are still 'youngest in years' who may appear babyish to the older ones.

Yes except the example given was for March 2017 kids in the same bracket of 2018 cohort so that would be past the 5 year old start date and cohort date.

Majority of parents use the 30 hours funding either school nursery or private. Some private don't accept it but many do so they would apply for that.

"DD is more than ready and I don’t think early Oct puts her at any disadvantage at all compared to any summer born kids. It’s a matter of weeks for goodness sake."

Well, this is exactly what I thought and have been proven wrong; which is the point of my post really.

It's a matter of luck, but there are only a handful of kids with summer birthdays in my DDs class. Majority are 6-14 months older, and it shows. Lots of points about learning and abilities, but it is more the social and emotional side we have struggled with. My DD is picking up the academic work no problem, in line with curriculum, and was "more than ready" for school according to school nursery.
But, when she's sitting doing work in groups and there are 6 year olds who can read then it is damaging her morale/she compares herself. She knows when doing work with P2s (semi-composite) that they are older, but with her peers in P1 there is a direct comparison.

All chuffed with her Peppa Pig notebook then got mocked as "Peppa Pig is for babies". She fell over in school playground and is mocked for crying etc etc. She's still into jumping in puddles, running about and being silly. The older girls are into their fancy clothes and having kid-pamper parties and the like. I'm more than happy for my wee girl to be a happy, messy, 4/5 year old; but it's made finding her "place" really hard. We have been unlucky with the number of deferred girls in the class, probably. I would definitely advise parents to do their research and nosying ahead of P1 to gauge the no. of deferrals. Other mums have told me they basically deferred because other parents were.

Deferring is getting ridiculous.
Most children without SEN don't need to defer and there has to be someone who is the youngest in the class. Comparing us to Scandinavian or other European systems isn't ideal either, as we have a slightly different approach to early years learning.

My concern for September and onwards birthdays would be potentially starting uni at age 17.

Academically, it depends on the individual. My September born DS was school Dux at the end of High School.

My best friend at school and I both started Uni after S5 (me just turned 17, her just before her 17th birthday). We both passed our degrees with flying colours (I went on to do a PhD too).

It's the social aspect I was speaking about. It's harder to make friends and socialise if you are not able to enter some establishments and drink due to age restrictions.

Four year degrees in Scotland were designed to build on Highers in S5, not AH or A levels, so I wouldn’t expect particular academic issues in most degrees. The worry is they are still young to be moving away from home.

In terms of ASN, it is partly the way it is described - often children are said to have ‘delayed development’. So the logic would be wait a bit longer before starting school and they will have caught up. And given the lack of ASN support in school, overcoming their ASN this way makes sense. The problem is these children aren’t just ‘delayed’; their progress proceeds at a different rate. So even if they are apparently at a similar stage as 5 year olds when they start school at 6, by the time they are 7 they are likely to be falling behind again. It doesn’t get rid of the ASN.

Anyone can be 'too young' to move away, at any age though. Part of growing up is facing challenges and adapting to them.

Agreed.
Deferring alone is not going to help long term, support is needed throughout.

@Scottishskifun but that's what I'm saying, it is now automatically granted if parents wish, no approval system, no process of parents requesting it and setting out why.

For late August to January yes that's the change. For March to mid August no it hasn't changed as its based on if the child is still 4 on the first day of term.

@Scottishskifun exactly

I left at end of S5 for uni, so was 16. No issues academically and it was perhaps a bit easier to get into pubs and clubs underage in 2006/7.

Now less socialising revolves around alcohol too. Many students choosing not to drink. Of course if your friendship group are big drinkers then it's going to be more difficult. But I wouldn't worry too much about this. It's always been possible to go to uni that bit younger in Scotland.

I agree that if a child is the youngest in the year there can be social challenges (although not in every case). One of my DC was one of the youngest in the school year and there were problems in early primary as my DC was not ready to sit still and listen for the amount of time expected. It all worked out in the end, but it was stressful for a few years. I also think with some DC that it helps at exam time in high school if they are that little bit older and have a bit of extra maturity. There will always be some who are youngest in the year who get excellent results, but I've also seen a child who was young in the year not quite appreciate the need to knuckle down and study to get results in S4 and 5.

Having said that, someone has to be the youngest in the year. Maybe the answer is for all children to start school a little bit later so they are that bit older when sitting exams in high school.