What is going on with deferrals?

[definitedeferral]

I'm wondering if any parents or teachers are noticing a growing issue with the number of children deferring in Scotland, and the impact on other children?

I'm referring to the change as of 2023 which means any child who is not age 5 at the start of P1 can defer and will now be entitled to another year's nursery funding. My child started school this year and is youngest in the year (Oct birthday), which came as a shock. I don't know exact numbers but there are numerous kids in the class who are already, or soon to be, 6 (ie they've all been deferred). So, in some cases over a year older than my child.

My kid is keeping up in terms of academic work, but on an emotional level it has been hard. They are mocked for liking "babyish" things. Their peers seem much older and are into different things, they're more confident and obviously ahead in a lot of the school work. My child has been in nursery for 4 years and everyone told us they were ready for school, so deferral wasn't really considered.

I now feel naive. Had I realised how many people were deferring and the disadvantage this would place on my kid, I would have done the same. Are we now at a place where you have to defer because so many other parents are? Not because your child isn't ready or out of genuine concern. Perhaps our case is isolated so interested to know if anyone else has found this too. Obviously might become more obvious as the rule change is very recent.

TIA

My DC who was one of the youngest in the year is now at Uni. While they are happy they were not deferred, being 17 at the start of Uni was definitely not a great start and hampered them socially. Even the student union checked for ID! DC was quite relieved when the 18th birthday came round.

What is wrong with just sticking to a set date though? Start in August if you are 5. No messing around. It would stop the middle classes gaming the system. The only response seems to be that ‘my child isn’t ready’, but how do you know they’ll be ‘ready’ in a years time. Maybe they are just different to most of their peers.

Even the student union checked for ID!

The student unions have to be especially careful about checking ID or they would lose their licence.

We could go into the Union building but certain areas were out of bounds without proving your age.

Mine is a December birthday and in S6 now. He was the youngest boy in his primary class, with a lot of deferred Jan/Feb boys from the year before (there were younger girls who hadn't deferred). We were told nursery wouldn't support deferral application when we asked about it, they said he was ready for school. He would probably have been more ready a year later, but overall he's done ok and no real regrets. Not being able to drive yet is his biggest frustration, and not being able to get served alcohol once his mates can is likely to be the next one! He's almost certainly planning a year out before uni though- I went at 17 and 7 months back in the dark ages (late Feb bday) but things were much laxer about ID for alcohol back then and I think friends' kids who go when still underage have found socialising challenging.

I have not read this thread - just your OP.

This rule change is not at all recent. It's certainly been the situation since my eldest started school in 1998 anyway.

Glad to see this thread. We’re struggling with this decision just now. Nov born child so due to start school Aug 25 at age 4. Seems to be 50/50 here on deferral/not.
I don’t think he’ll struggle at all with the learning side of things - seems to pick things up easily and is more confident with numbers and letters than lots of the other children he’s at nursery with according to his key worker. But he’s an anxious child and I’m worried how he’ll cope emotionally. He only started nursery when his 3yo funding kicked in so has only been in early years since January.
School applications open for us in 2 weeks. And I need to make any request for deferring by end Nov this year. How on earth am I supposed to know what he’ll be like next August?!

This years P1 intake has the youngest child turning 5 on 8/2/25 while the oldest turned 6 on 3/9/24!! Which seems absolutely ridiculous that these kids will be compared!

@Anisty the rule change I'm referring to is the extra years nursery funding; now available for any child who's not 5 at start of school for an additional year. This was introduced in 2023. Any child can now defer, parents don't need to justify it or go through process to get extra nursery funding, they get this automatically.

news.stv.tv/west-central/primary-ones-mark-first-day-of-school-as-campaigners-win-law-change

@Pumpkinseason3 it's really hard! I don't want to advise because I think every child and situation will be different at the moment. Next few years will be interesting but unfortunately those of us with kids starting school during these years are doing so a bit blind as to what to expect. Try talking to other parents and see what they're doing maybe. As I say when it comes down to it, it's no longer about the needs of the particular child perhaps; more about what other kids they're going to be compared against/have as peers.

My third born was deferred. September born. It has been a blessing and was mutually agreed by nursery staff at the time. He's 9yo in P4 and a recent OT assessment has said off the record he's likely dyspraxic so we are now in the system to be assessed fully for this. He needs lots of support. For some children, deferral is a lifeline and offers extra time without the stress of having to keep up with others their age.

It's a culture change that will take at least a decade to bed in. It's the beginning of a move to make 6 the school starting age. See Upstart Scotland and Give Them Time as the 'lobby groups'. The downside, in this interim period, is the most disadvantaged children are losing out once again as their parents are less likely to defer them.

In my 25 years of teaching, I have not met a parent who regretted deferring (under the old rules). I have met plenty who regretted not deferring - usually at the P7/S1 transition. It will be interesting to see if the rule changes alter that.

By the time this cohort reach S4, I suspect Scot Gov will follow England in insisting pupils remain in a form of education until 18.

@Pumpkinseason3 check with your local authority- ours allow you to do both - make the deferral request and apply for a school place and decide by April/May.

Quite a few parents do this so they have a bit longer to decide and it's easier applying for both then trying to do late funding applications.

For what it's worth our decision to defer DS1 (Jan birthday) was not based on his academic ability for P1 but we considered it across all year groups, the social side was a factor in would he be able to enjoy not just cope. Would taking exams at 15 rather then 16 be too much pressure and could he sit, follow instructions for a task etc. He could have coped with P1 work last year but confidence wise and sitting and listening would have been a struggle.

It's not an easy decision and I did feel guilty in August last year when all his friends went to school but within 8 weeks it was clear it was the right one and as said previously his ability to sit and listen is chalk and cheese. His confidence also grew as the more boisterous boys in his preschool left.

By the time this cohort reach S4, I suspect Scot Gov will follow England in insisting pupils remain in a form of education until 18.

Not if the SNP/Greens are in control. They are determined to ‘adultify’ ever younger (and more impressionable) children.

I was looking at the school roll forecasts in our area and the the predicted drop in children in the Edinburgh area is just staggering. Is this the drop in fertility?

www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/22447/primary-school-roll-projections

For what it's worth our decision to defer DS1 (Jan birthday) was not based on his academic ability for P1 but we considered it across all year groups, the social side was a factor in would he be able to enjoy not just cope. Would taking exams at 15 rather then 16 be too much pressure and could he sit, follow instructions for a task etc.

Completely agree with this @Scottishskifun
It's important to consider age across the whole school career, transitions to high school, exam years etc
Many private schools have encouraged deferral for kids born after November for many years now, because they've had an eye to secondary education, the exam years and the benefits of being older sitting public exams, starting university etc

Ah - thanks for this. Yes, that is a change. I deferred my 3rd born but he had recognised additional support needs so he got an extra nursery year in 2002.

My 4th born October birthday, there was no guarantee he'd get an additional nursery year but i worked from home as a childminder and i knew it was my legal right not to send him.

With him, there was quite a bit of pressure for me to send him as the school P1 year roll was very low that year. But i held out and they gave him the additional nursery year too.

My 5th born has a birthday 30th August. I deferred her too, so she was 2 weeks off her 6th birthday on starting P1.

My younger two at the time were not diagnosed with anything. My 4th born was on target with learning skills but very run about with poor attention and listening skills.

My 5th born had not gelled with any friends and was very shy. So it was social reasons for her. She was up to speed with learning skills.

Call it Mum's instinct - my 4th born went through primary and secondary school no problem and came out a straight A student in Highers.

Went to Uni and the wheels came off in year 2 with social anxiety. And brain fog. Though he is without any official diagnosis, he self diagnosed with adhd at Uni and i would not be at all surprised if he had a mixed adhd/autism profile.

He did complete his degree but has been in private counselling for the past 2 years just trying to manage anxiety.

And my 5th born sailed through primary but hated high school so much she took an overdose aged 16. She is now out of school much happier and has just completed a private autism assessment - we go in for a feedback meeting soon to get the results but i'm certain she will meet the criteria for diagnosis.

Neither was picked up in the school system but, as a parent, you just know your own child.

The only common mistake i see from parents is "oh, he's never still. He's so bored in nursery now. He needs school"

If your kid is running around and not able to sit and engage with activities in nursery, they are NOT ready for school!!! That is not boredom. That is poor attention. You can put a 10 year old in a nursery for an hour and observe - they will find a toy/activity there that they will engage with for an extended period. Flitting from one thing to another is no sign that they have outgrown nursery at all.

* Sorry - i meant to say with my 4th born as i worked from home as a childminder, it was no problem to have kept my son at home with me had he not got the additional nursery year. I knew it was my legal right not to send him to school at 4yrs and 10 months so I definitely was not going to send him.

The school initially said there would be no additional nursery year for him but that was ok with me (it was like a nursery at my house anyway!)

And then, last minute, they said he could return to nursery. I did not need to fight for it. And in fact I wasn't bothered whether he got it or not. I just knew he wasn't starting school at 4.

@Anisty thanks for sharing your experiences, really interesting. Good points around kids being able to sit and concentrate, although we were repeatedly advised by school and nursery that the "learn through play" curriculum now caters better for all children in terms of their levels of concentration etc.

Agree parents should know their children best and make the decision re:deferral; but this post wasn't intended to highlight individual reasons for deferral and associated pros/cons.

The issues we've faced are due to half the class being deferred, and the remainder being towards the "older" end of typical age range. So, the point being that you could be confident in your child's readiness, emotionally and academically.. but then send them to school and find the number of deferrals amongst their classmates, has put them at a disadvantage. Are parents to gauge their readiness for P1 against the traditional age range and abilities, or their readiness in being compared with a child over a year older than them?

I hope the posters who mentioned Covid are correct and this problem tapers off. But, if not, in future parents will have to consider all the needs of their particular child; AND the levels of deferrals amongst the rest of the class.

We deferred my son who has just turned 6 this week. We did this as we were having to do a big move to a totally different area that follows different literacy schemes so didn't want him to start P1 in one area and then move and become totally unsettled and have big gaps in learning at such a crucial stage. It's been the best thing we could have done for him as he's so much more mature and ready and coped very well with the transition, however he is the oldest in his class and 16 months older than the youngest child who is a February birthday. Our old local authority had a high percentage of deferrals but our new area doesn't.
I do think we are going to get to the stage where it becomes the norm for children to automatically defer if they are not yet 5 when they are due to start school, and I'm all for that as can see the benefits that an extra year to play and mature have. There always has to be a youngest and oldest in the class, and I think we are getting to a point where more people are understanding the advantages to being oldest so are trying to give their kids that opportunity. Absolutely some children are ready at 4, my son would have been too, but when you have the opportunity to have an extra funded year to allow them to develop more emotionally , socially and creatively through play, then why not take that and make sure they are even more ready at 5.

I agree that it’s now getting a bit ludicrous and they really need to look at changing the start date to make it more fair across the board. At our primary school deferral is now more common than not as everyone wants their child to be the oldest and it is actually quite a problem. We now have children born at the end of august (after school start date so automatic funding) being deferred for no reason other than their parents think it will give them an advantage but this is causing huge problems in the nursery as it means that these children are having 3 full years of nursery and there isn’t space for the new 3 year olds. The older children in nursery are also totally out of place as for the spring term before they go to school we have nearly 3 years between the oldest and youngest children and we find that many older children seem to think they are the bosses of the nursery and boss the little ones around and are much physically stronger and bigger so horde all the toys etc.

There are also more and more parents trying to get older deferrals now too for march to august birthdays and although only a few hundred are approved each year across Scotland at present it’s just moving the goal posts wider and wider.

For what it’s worth I was a February birthday and it was fine, I didn’t give it a second thought as because kids weren’t routinely deferred I was just one of several with birthdays on the younger side but now I feel that lots parents feel that they don’t have a choice as everyone else is deferring so if they don’t then their child could be the youngest by quite a margin which is why I think the actual starting age needs looked at again.

Presumably if there are a lot of deferrals then this impacts nurseries too? Either children will be bored there or they will end up doing the P1 stuff in nursery?

Get what you're saying and apologies for not reading through the full thread.

Obviously as well my kids are grown up now so the curriculum has really changed. I am not totally out of touch though as I still childmind school aged kids and I also had a brief return to my first career (speech and language therapy) in 2014.

So i am aware of the WHO report into the crisis in children's language skills and the alarming numbers of children presenting in P1 not ready to take off with learning at all.

And - obviously the Curriculum For Excrement (as known) is woeful and had retarded educational attainment in Scotland.

School readiness 20 years ago - well to be independent in self care skills, dressing, doing fastenings themselves appropriate to age (zips, buttons, velcro)

Knife and fork was a 5yr old skill
All pre reading language skills should have been in place.

These were:

Thorough knowledge of nursery rhymes. Rhyming precedes reading.
Thorough knowledge of pre school songs and ability to clap a rhythm.
Early pen hold and drawing. Ability to draw a person recognisable with facial features and clothing should be there at 5.

Early word recognition - write their own name, know their own birthday, know where they live etc. Recognise common words (Tesco etc!)
(Obvs many much further on but this would have been bare minimum)

Play skills - sharing well developed by 5 and pretend play sophisticated. Ability to create extended play scene and interact with others, turn taking, game rules etc.

Ability to listen, take instruction, follow a simple 3 step instruction. Follow rules.

So - most kids 20 years ago were just ready to "take off" with reading and writing.

Compare that to today - i see in my minded kids those who cannot zip their own coat at 5. Knife and fork - well, that's out the window now even amongst young adults!

Many kids have delayed speech and language at school entry and that means they cannot take off with reading. Reading is key to curriculum and success in education but many kids just do not have pre school foundations nailed by 5.

Of course there are more ASN kids in mainstream than ever before - some are agressive and those that aren't are way behind with play skills.

The 5yr old of 20 and 30 yrs ago is not the same 5 yr old of today.

I personally have not seen 5yr olds in nappies but i have seen the media.

In days gone by the traditional playgroup start age was 2yrs 10 months for a very good reason. Developmentally, a child aged 2;10 would be fully toilet trained, ready to seperate from parent, be ready to engage in early play with other children and enjoy singing, rhyming and all those pre school craft activities.

Nursery staff should have the ability to keep children interested with responsive planning. This means tapping into their interests and moving forward to keep them engaged.

But if you have a lot of deferred children then that moving forward shifts what they used to learn in P1 into nursery.