XL bully dogs and Scotland

[CoatOfArms]

Another blinder by our "wonderful" government. I was not aware that the ban on these awful chav beast dogs only applied in England and Wales. No legislation to ban/restrict them in Scotland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67787667

Some dim woman who runs a "bullie rescue" says she has been "inundated". Isn't that just marvellous.

They don't care if they are reported! By reporting them all that will happen is an innocent dog will lose its life, they won't pay the thousands it takes to go through the courts and get their dog back so the dog would die . If you want to go about reporting these kinds of people then that's up to you but I'm not ok with any innocent animal being killed because their owner is an idiot.

By reporting them, what will happen is a high risk dangerous animal in the wrong hands is off the street and not a risk to people. It is unfortunate the animal has to die, the poor dog should never have existed in the first place, but the alternative is unthinkable.

There is no such thing as an innocent or guilty dog. They don't know what the law is, they can only follow their instincts and the instinct bred into these powerful dogs is to be aggressive/protective/fight, it is not "guilty" if it follows those instincts humans bred into them.

Dogs live in the moment. Humanely PTS a dog is sad for people, but it is not a a travesty for the dog, it doesn't know what is happening. The alternative is.

@Irvine21

If you want to go about reporting these kinds of people then that's up to you but I'm not ok with any innocent animal being killed because their owner is an idiot.

Don't you see that strong, powerful dogs with 'idiot' owners are precisely the dogs who shouldn't be on the streets?

It's not the dogs fault at all, but those are the ones who won't have trained their dog properly and will have encouraged bad behaviours including aggression.

Again, not the dogs fault but the more of an idiot the owner is, the greater the increased risk of them being dangerous.

I'm so over conversing with people who think it's "unfortunate" but the dog should be killed or should never have been alive in the first place. Anyone who thinks my dog shouldn't be alive is to me a person with zero acceptance or empathy towards living things. My point still stands on the ban hasn't caused any improvements just people like myself have to muzzle their dogs who have never put a foot wrong . I don't think humans have the right to play god over who or what should live and die. If the case is that humans get to play god over lives then bring back hanging because I am really tired of paying taxes to keep people in jail who are a danger to the public.

I'm so over conversing with people who think it's "unfortunate" but the dog should be killed or should never have been alive in the first place. Anyone who thinks my dog shouldn't be alive is to me a person with zero acceptance or empathy towards living things.

Dogs that were bred with the size, power, temperament for fighting have no place in domestic settings, so yes, absolutely your dog breed should not exist and I have zero acceptance of dangerous animals in domestic settings. It only exists because of screwed up humans messing around and creating monsters.

I am a dog lover and previous dog owner (lost very recently to cancer) and totally empathise with the love people have for their dogs, but I am a lover more of the safety of people and children.

"I'm so over conversing with people who" have their priorities so screwed up over a type of high risk dangerous dog they prefer for very unsound reasons.

@Irvine21

I'm so over conversing with people who think it's "unfortunate" but the dog should be killed or should never have been alive in the first place. Anyone who thinks my dog shouldn't be alive is to me a person with zero acceptance or empathy towards living things.

This is so utterly dismissive of people who have to live around awful, irresponsible owners of XL bullies. You may be one of the owners who isn't awful or irresponsible. Good for you.

Some of us, and our children, have been living in areas where we are frightened on walks because the owners of XL bullies who are awful and irresponsible have scary, poorly trained, reactive, dangerous dogs.

You show such a huge lack of empathy when you say that anyone who believes such dogs should be destroyed has 'zero empathy towards living things'. What a horrible thing to say about people who are scared. And for good reason, if they haven't only heard about attacks in the news but have also known of them in real life.

You yourself admit that thugs (I'm not saying you, I'm saying lots of people who choose the breed) are attracted to XL bullies, So you must acknowledge that they present an increased danger.

This isn't about you and your dog individually. I can only imagine you don't have to live somewhere where you have no choice other than to be around XL bullies with awful owners. And if you did have to be, then trust me, you whether or not you thought the ban would do much in the long term, you would be relieved that due to the ability to now report them, less of them might be on your walk to school / the park / somewhere your kids might be playing.

Agreed!

You have always had the ability to report them though (if you live in Scotland) it has always been the law that dogs should be kept under control . That's why Scottish government didn't go ahead with the ban in the first place, they thought that people would report these out of control dogs . Now the dogs that aren't out of control are suffering with the changes and the dogs that are out of control are roaming wild . It is unfortunate that sometimes they attract the wrong type of owner but they don't always attract the wrong type of owner. I have one because I enjoy training my dog , doing agility, going adventure holidays, when I was searching for what dog would suit our family I was intrigued by the intelligence that the breed has, the robustness to live with my other large breed dogs, the loyalty and companionship is something else with my dog and he is one very smart cookie. Folk on here and other people who aren't keen on bully dogs can say oh why didn't you get a Labrador, well I did he's 6 and dumb as poo lol , he's not into interactions with other dogs ( not reactive just not interested in the slightest), does not enjoy jumping , he just isn't all that as much as I love him very much he's just a pet not a dog that enjoys what I want to do with my dogs.

They bred the XL bully to breed the aggression out of the dog if you properly research it, the proper XL bully was bred with the idea of being a companion and family dog. Unfortunately there are now loads of them that backyard breeder took advantage of the loophole and bred the aggressive DNA back into their dogs but these dogs are not the xlbully breed that the abkc had in mind with the dog when the breed first came about in America. Most if not all of the UK attacks have been by dogs that are questionable whether they are XL bully dogs or are most definitely not XL bully dogs. The poor old lady who was mauled by her son in law's dogs they were definitely not XL bully dogs one was a put bull and the other a rottie cross for example. Proper xl bully for example would be the dog called ghost that was wrongly accused of biting a security guard and seized in Leicester city centre. This was all on camera but police still took weeks to return that innocent dog to his family. He was a perfect example of the breed calm, placid unfazed by anything.

Before you go saying they should all be killed because they were bred for this , that and the other , you should read up on what an XL bully is and compare them to the dogs which have been responsible for the attacks. Also read up on where these dogs have come from because there is such a thing as nature Vs nurture. There are people who live happily along side bears for crying out loud, yes I would be very scared and wouldn't be going to their home for my dinner but I don't think all bears should be killed .

@Irvine21

Your reply is almost entirely about you and your dog. You show a complete lack of empathy for people who are living alongside awful owners with dangerous dogs. You may not be one. Your dog may not be one. But many, many are. And they are doing real damage.

It’s like guns. For the good of us all there are strict controls including outright bans. So with dangerous dogs.

Anyone who can’t see that is wilfully blind.

How do you know these dogs you have seen are aggressive or going to savage people? Or is it the fact there has been several attacks that makes you scared of the breed? Have you ever been chased by one? I have it wasn't fun but it doesn't make me scared of them all. Brother was bitten by a German shepherd so he's a little wary of them now but he doesn't think they are all dangerous. My mum was bitten by a boxer and same goes with her. Neighbour was bitten by a Labrador literally mauled her face injuries were shocking poor soul , she still stops to pet our Labrador. Friends daughter was mauled by their jack Russel so so badly when she was 5 there was no police at the door and they kept the dog. I'm just not getting why all these people are so scared of a dog that has never done anything wrong to them. More than likely nobody on this thread has been present at any of the attacks so we don't know exactly what happened at any of them for the attacks to take place. Several of the attacks I have read up about where the victims are thankfully alive they themselves have stated that before the attack they were displaying nervous behaviours towards the dogs because they are frightened of the size of the animal , don't like the look of the person holding the lead etc. I genuinely 100% believe that every action has a reaction in this world and there is reasons why the dogs have attacked, be it the person has done something to the dog , another animal has reacted towards the dog (we all know that tiny little dogs have little man syndrome and can be very yappy due to owners not feeling the need to train such a small dog), the dogs picked up on nervous behaviour from passerby and seen it as a threat if they have been trained in that way, or the dogs been unfortunate enough to be badly treated resulting in an animal in fight or flight mode.
We do know that none of the attacks were caused by dogs who had brain tumors or other illnesses because after they are killed lots of tests are done to rule this out , this has to happen before they can charge an owner with having a dangerous dog for obvious reasons. I have been bitten by a dog I owned for 14 years due to a brain tumour so I know that illness like that can cause erratic behaviour.

It just seems all very bizarre to me that so many attacks in such a short space of time have happened when there are so many of these dogs around.

Being nervous around them is going to make them more likely to attack?! Christ, this just gets worse.

@Irvine21

It just seems all very bizarre to me that so many attacks in such a short space of time have happened when there are so many of these dogs around.

The last few years has seen a massive increase in the breed, thanks to dickhead dodgy breeders. The breed has become a status symbol for thugs. Not all are owned by thugs of course, but thugs love the breed so disproportionate amount of XL bullies are in the hands of them.

The number of that breed of dogs has increased and the number of attacks / deaths has increased.

Why is that bizarre? It makes perfect sense.

I couldn't quite believe that was meant to be a point in the favour of the breed rather than the ban tbh.

"Well you got attacked by a powerful dog that weighs more than you and could overpower you, but it was because you were nervous about it attacking you, actions have reactions. Next time don't be nervous 🤷🏻‍♀️ "

Make it make sense.

Because bully defenders are constantly victim blaming. It was you, or the other dog, or the toddler. You looked at it wrong, you breathed near it, you dared exist near it.

This is not a defense in the bully attacks I stated this as a reason for any animal attack. As a person who had studied dog behaviour then yes, any animal can pick up on nervous behaviour as a threat . May explain why the people who are not reading every little bit of "suspected XL bully" reports are ultimately less liable to actually receive unwanted behaviour from the breed . I honestly do understand why people are frightened with everything they have read in the media I really do , but unless you have actually seen it for yourself how do you know you are receiving the whole truth. As stated multiple times the dogs reported have never actually been XL bully dogs. If they have and the police prove this through DNA then why wouldn't DNA stand in court for the unfortunate dogs who are seized under bsl as pit bull type? A dog is typed on its appearance and measurements and the images show the appearance of the reported dogs. This means that they are not XL bully dogs the are mostly Pitbull terriers mixed with Staffordshire bull terrier, rottweilers, cane corse, etc there is no American bully dog in them it's ridiculous. I live my life with what I see Infront of me and avoid what I don't like. I don't think I have the right to put a death sentence on any animal or human . I think that the whole situation is bizarre because the breed has been around for a long time now and attacks seem to all have happened in such a short space of time, if all these dogs are savage beasts that are "triggered" from thin air then there would be a hell of alot more attacks happened. These dogs are roaming the streets after being turfed out by low lifes that can't be bothered to exempt them , they are found abandoned multiple times a day so why aren't all those dogs causing any harm? I just have so many questions that come up every time the media make another report because to every dog attack by suspected XL bully I see on average 20 bully dogs abandoned on the streets of UK. People seem to think that the statistics are high compared to the amount of dogs because the breeds only been in the UK for 10 years. For those amongst the bully community the statistics are not high considering the fact we know there are hundreds of thousands of these dogs in the UK compared to the measily numbers the statistics state.

Irvine you just made a generalisation about little dogs and how we all know they have small man syndrome, yet you are totally dismissive of our generalisations about bullys! Your arguments are all so self centred, you're not even trying to understand our points/ our logic/ our statistics. You just keep repeating how unfair it all is on your poor fluffball and how because you are a good owner, we shouldn't be afraid??

@Irvine21

I honestly do understand why people are frightened with everything they have read in the media I really do , but unless you have actually seen it for yourself how do you know you are receiving the whole truth.

Many of us HAVE seen it though. Seen them lunging at people including kids on our roads, seen owners of them getting arsey with people who cross the road to avoid the dog because they're nervous of it, seen arsehole owners proudly walking them off lead...

Why don't you understand that people are experiencing this and do have real reason to be scared of them without it being 'media spin'?

Do you think I'm lying about having seen all that? About seeing it on a daily basis where I live?

You've repeatedly dismissed people saying they are frightened as if this is purely a witch hunt. You're a good owner you say, great, many people aren't. And the amount of shit owners with an XL bully is higher than the amount of shit owners with a smaller dog. And the XL bully can do a lot more damage than a smaller dog and can't be overpowered if it attacks. You must surely understand that all that combines to a very real fear of them?

I live my life with what I see Infront of me and avoid what I don't like.

Should I move house then? I can't afford to. What do I do? Never take my child for a walk?

we all know that tiny little dogs have little man syndrome and can be very yappy due to owners not feeling the need to train such a small dog

So you can generalise about small dogs but people are monsters for generalising about a breed you own?

You are putting the case quite strongly for all dogs of all breeds to be put down, not just XL bullies.

Since when should the public live with animals who instill fear and be told just to suck it up?

Well you said it not me! What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

They have been living with them for 10 years now , media make a big song and dance and suddenly you are all petrified of every XL bully dog, with some sick people going to major extents to cause them harm . 8 months ago most people couldn't of picked an XL bully out on the street never mind be on high alert for them. To be perfectly honest most people still can't pick out an XL bully but they are really good and picking out pitbulls as XL Bully as that is the dogs the media have published

No thoughts on me sharing my actual, real lire experience of this then @Irvine21 ?

Life, not lire obviously

That is not a generalised insinuation it is a known statistic of the breed , they are little and can you imagine how scary the world is to be so little, this makes them quite alert to everything being a threat (unless trained correctly with decent exposure). I don't see why everyone has been jumping at the chance to report an out of control XL bully that they have been frightened of for some time. The law has ALWAYS been that dogs of all breeds should be kept under control in public spaces. Me personally would not report an XL bully now unless it caused me harm as I don't think dogs should die because their owners are stupid it's not my call to make. If I was at the school gates a year ago with my child and an XL bully lunged at me yes I would have reported it so the owner could be dealt with, the same way I would report any dog causing me fear or harm no matter the size. I don't want to be hurt by any dog and that's why Scotland has laws in place to enable reports to be made and orders to be put in place to prevent harm.

It now does look like a witch hunt to me when I see oh the ban means we can report them now , no it means if you report them the dog has a 90% chance of being put down and the owners just go get another for the cycle to begin again. Whereas if they were reported 8 months ago when they tried to harm you and the owners did nothing about it then there were options , the dog could be removed if need be and have a chance with someone experienced because there are so many people willing and actually able to control a large dog so it can get what it needs.

Can I ask why you did not report a dog causing you fear before the ban?

Over the last couple if years we repeatedly reported these dogs being brought over to our estate to be exercised and being allowed to run free, one person with 3 of them sometimes. A dog was attacked and nearly killed, a deer killed and children chased in the playpark. We had the dog warden and councillors involved. The guy was asked to only walk one at a time and keep the worst one on a lead and resident suggested to build a 6 foot high fence around the playpark.

Guy never complied.

You have shown zero empathy for people (including those with children) living in areas where these dogs are prevalent and poorly trained, if at all, @Irvine21

You've repeatedly minimised or dismissed people's concerns and insinuated that their fears are all down to media coverage rather than real life experience.

Me personally would not report an XL bully now unless it caused me harm as I don't think dogs should die because their owners are stupid it's not my call to make.

If everyone waited until physical harm (I assume that's what you mean) was done rather than reporting an out of control XL bully before it does physical harm, more attacks will happen. You say you now wouldn't report an XL bully if it lunged at a child but would have before. How incredibly irresponsible of you. It's shocking.

You seem to be speaking from a real place of privilege when it comes to the kinds of dog owners you encounter.

Lucky you.