XL bully dogs and Scotland

[CoatOfArms]

Another blinder by our "wonderful" government. I was not aware that the ban on these awful chav beast dogs only applied in England and Wales. No legislation to ban/restrict them in Scotland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67787667

Some dim woman who runs a "bullie rescue" says she has been "inundated". Isn't that just marvellous.

Fighting breeds should simply not be allowed in the UK. These man made powerful monstrosities have no purpose and should be made extinct as quickly as possible, not "human safe".

dh, ds and I watched the video link @oakleaffy shared and we were discussing what would we do if we came across a person, god forbid a child, being attacked - if those grown men in the video were pounding that dog with all their force with a heavy wrench what on earth could I do other than call 999 and stand back and watch it? dh and ds(19) said they would likely try to intervene as they couldn't just watch, and the thought of that terrifies me too. Hopefully none of us will be in that position as it just does not bare thinking about 😢

There is a Vet's wife who wrote on Mumsnet about how her strong, Rugby playing Vet husband couldn't get an XL to release from their pet Labrador.

People were beating it with things, squeezing its testicles, lifting it up by it's hind legs and it still killed the Labrador.

This picture shows an XL with its owners before being euthanised for aggression to those same owners.
Note the massive head and neck, and the tiny hand of the adult.

It's all 'Soft lump' til it isn't.

They have a low centre of gravity and are incredibly powerful.

The only way to get one off is to cut off the airway somehow - {advice given on various Pitbull sites} or to use a wedge driven into the dog's mouth ''Parting stick''.

As a bully breed owner (not XL bully) I am distraught at the thought my bully will now be banned in Scotland soon. This is all because he is a big dog. He has never put a foot wrong and is very well trained as well as extremely easy to engage with no matter the distraction. I have 3 large breed dogs who all have health insurance, 3rd party insurance, chipped, neutered and muzzle trained for vet purposes. I always muzzle train my dogs as I would hate the thought of them making anyone feel uncomfortable. So moral of the story is there are responsible owners with these dogs who "are the type of people who care about insurance". I'm tired of being tarred with the same bad owner brush as everyone else when I have worked so hard to make sure my dogs are well balanced and safe to be out in public.

Well you'll be fine then won't you @Irvine21 ? Your dog is chipped, muzzled, insured. You will have to have it neutered if you haven't already. Train it not to run up or jump at other people.

It's really not a big ask.

Well not really fine as the ban will massively alter our plans for the future. We planned to move to Canada this year and have now had to abandon that plan as once we remove our bully from the country he will not be able to return . This means if there was any reason we had to return home we would have to leave him in Canada . So is that fair? I think not!. It also means that he will never be allowed off lead when we worked so hard to make sure he has amazing recall . So is that fair? I think not! He also has epilepsy so we really do need health insurance which we will struggle to get once the ban comes into force. Is that fair? I think not! There are so many factors that people don't consider when they are screaming from the rooftop that these dogs should be banned . Yes, I agree that something has to be done but a ban will just punish the dogs . A licence where people have to do training specific to their chosen breed would be much more productive. Yes, I mean all breeds, as an owner of 3 different breeds I have learned that they all require different levels of training in different matters. All dogs from tcup chihuahua to great Dane should be properly trained! I am not ok with being barked at or chased by any dog of any size!

Why will your bully be banned in Scotland and why would it be banned? Your post doesn't make sense!

You're clearly a responsible keener, muzzle etc so all you need to do is pay for an exemption certificate. Nothing else. So what's different?

@Irvine21 I am sorry that you're affected as a responsible owner but honestly, preventing human deaths does have to be the priority here.

Yes. Public safety comes first.

I have replied to a previous comment on the impact the ban will have on me and my dog. I don't get why my post doesn't make sense? Or do you still believe it is just XL bully dogs that will be banned? If that's the case then you couldn't be more wrong unfortunately! My dog is a large bully cross breed he meets all the height and characteristic description so therefore he will have to be exempted. So many dogs will be banned because the government don't have a clue what an XL bully is then before long they will move onto the next breed to be banned because the bad owners and breeders which should pay the price have found something else that is bigger to make money from. If the government put proper licensing laws in place to make it harder for any Tom, dick or harry to breed these dogs then we would never be in this position. It already being proven that this ban isnt working because there are so many people still breeding them and selling the pups as standard American bullies! Then the poor new owners and dogs will have to deal with their dogs being seized once they have fully grown and someone reports them as XL bully. The only ones suffering in this situation are the responsible owners who will have to live by all the new restrictions and the dogs that are being abandoned left, right and centre because their owners have no use for them anymore.

The only ones suffering in this situation are the responsible owners

And any people who are victims of dangerous dogs attacking them, of course. Plus, the dogs themselves. I watched that video upthread of the dog relentlessly attacking a man, and it was horrifying, but it was also heartbreaking, because the poor battered dog was clearly just doing what it was bred to do. It was even wagging its tail.

It's cruel to the animals themselves to create these breeds.

Your post is all what-ifs though, @Irvine21 . What if you go to Canada and what if you don't like it and what if at that point your animal is not allowed back into Scotland. What if you can't get insurance. What if your dog isn't allowed off the lead.

I couldn't care less whether your dog is "technically" an XL bully or an ordinary bully or just a huge animal which is intimidating to others. You chose that breed. Your choices have consequences.

@Irvine21 I have some sympathy, some. But it simply isn't sustainable or scalable to take account of people like yourself. It's exactly the same argument as "most people who owned a gun would be responsible, why should they be punished".

Because we can't easily distinguish between responsible owners and terrible ones without exorbitant logistical effort from the state. We take the view these dogs are not worth the cost to society, so apologies - we need to make rules that are simple to implement and enforce.

The only what if in my post is the likes of what if my brother who's a single dad to a disabled son dies and I have to return home to care for his son. The rest of my post is facts not rudeness and uneducated nonsense like you have just said. I chose to own a large dog I didn't choose to own a shark . He is a very friendly well balanced dog. We are supposed to be a nation of dog lovers and thankfully people who see it as black and white like yourself are in the minority because my dog has only ever received good reactions from the public. I of course will follow the rules because I love my dog he's part of the family and deserves to stay that way. I took on a large breed dog and I took on the necessary training which should go with that breed of dog . I just wish that every dog owner done the same because I will not give a 2nd thought to reporting even a chihuahua off lead barking at my dog in public while he is muzzled. The law states that all dogs should be kept under control in public not just large dogs so the folk who own little dogs will be paying the price for their lazyness when it comes to training their dogs. I now have bodycam on me and my dog when out because I won't have him bothered by out of control dogs so anything caught on the camera will be reported

If they put on proper breeder licence laws then we wouldn't be in a position that they can't tell the difference between responsibile or irresponsible owners. Good breeders do their own checks and mostly these would help weed out the people who should not be owning any dog never mind a large powerful breed. Simple things like stating your XL bully has to be chipped to get exemption...the law states all dogs should be chipped so why isn't this being done by the breeders? Mine were all chipped and vaccinated before they came to us from the breeders. Litter mate sydrome has alot to do with some of these out of control dogs too...breeders should not be sending multiple dogs from same litters to the same owners it's just asking for trouble. Bad breeders and charging crazy amounts for pups and people are paying it then breeding their dog on their first season to make the money back it's insane. A lot of the dogs that were abandoned in England came from breeders who had no interest on keeping the dog now they can't use it as a cash cow. If the government don't get it together and put proper laws in place rather than just endlessly banning breeds then the same situation will happen time and time again. Bsl is not going to protect the public it just punishes people like myself who have brought up well behaved dogs and the bad owners just ignore the rules or dump their dog and move onto something else.

Well, I'm with you that we could do with more regulation and addressing of other issues. I would say that should be done in addition to banning dangerous breeds.

Yes 100% ! Just banning a breed is pointless. They just do it to make the public think they are acting on the situation. They never even enforce it ! It's down to the public to go report these unregistered banned dogs when that isn't their job. There are hundreds of videos online right now of people still breeding them, rehoming them and letting them run off lead in public with no muzzle so if that isn't enough proof that bsl doesn't work then I don't know what is

@Irvine21 if indeed you are going to Canada I hope it's not Ontario!

Completely agree- more control and legislation against badly behaved dogs and breeding dogs is the way to go.

Another man has been severely mauled by an XL - it was indoors {unmuzzled} and it flew at a food delivery man, gripping onto his arm , getting him to the floor and ''shaking it's head side to side''.

It was being so say ''looked after'' by someone.

In several cases of people being attacked , aggressive dogs have got out when the external doors or windows are opened.

The size of these things and their bite style {grab hard and shake from side to side} means significant damage is done, even through clothing.

The dog so say had never done anything like that before.

Judges are deciding on the fate of the XL - it surely will be euthanised after injuring a man so severely?

They are still a danger to people in the house or knocking on the door if they can crash past someone to attack.

About the delivery driver attack: " He said the way the dog behaved on the night in question was out of character for the animal."

That's the thing. It's entirely in character for this breed. All fine until they aren't. And then they aren't it's catastrophic. That man was left with severe injuries and I'm willing to guess severe mental trauma to match. He thought he was going to die. He was just doing his job.
Of course the dog in question was called Bronson 🙄

That video was the most horrific thing I have ever seen the dogs were so eerie quiet ! Like they were just having their dinner. The person who owned those dogs should be responsible for the murder of that man and ultimately the murder of the dogs too!. I don't defend anyone with out of control dogs no matter the size of the dog if you want to own a dog you should have to train the dog. They are all animals at the end of the day no matter how cute and cuddly they can be. Again tho I reiterate this was not my dog and if my dog ever did something even a nip then I should be punished for it because I'm responsible for him

A nip is one thing - and those of us who own dogs of a size we could overpower if needed know that. These large dogs, even those that are well trained and from a reputable breeder, cannot be easily taken down by a human should the need arise. If I had a choice between a chihuahua that had escaped from its garden and was angry, frightened or in pain and an XL in the same circumstances I know which one I'd rather deal with.

The problem with these powerful breeds, as you see in the videos, is once triggered their recall or whatever training goes out the window. They are focussed solely on the attack.

You have no idea how your own large bull breed will respond to you if it was triggered, you cannot 100% say it never will be and the damage they are capable of makes them unacceptable to have as a pet.

It was a consequence and known (as other fighting breeds have been banned in the past) risk you took when you bought an ridiculously, unnecessarily large and powerful dog. I have sympathy for the dogs that didn't ask for their fate, but owners need to take responsibility for their actions and that includes buying the dog in the first place.

Yes, training is not foolproof. The best trained dog can get spooked, or develop health problems, or react, and become aggressive. In most dogs this is a concern, in some breeds this is highly dangerous.

I don't know where people get this triggered from so if you could tell me that would be great. They are born with a word, a smell , a noise in their mind that triggers them to kill. They aren't some kind of robot they are trained to do these things are allowed to behave unacceptably when puppies which leads to unwanted behaviours in a large dog which is not something we want. I also have a lurcher x Mali who is 10 now and yes he was born with a high prey drive which was trained out of him as a puppy he's now 10 and has never hurt any animals or people in fact he hardly moves he's like part of the furniture. I really do urge people who are terrified of these dogs to actually meet one who has a good owner so they can see for themselves the difference a good upbringing makes

Nope definitely not !!