Sturgeon's husband arrested.

[Rainbowshit]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65187823

🍿 🍿 🍿

It is bizarre as to how it happens .

I think it's relatively simple as to how it happens, human psychology is such that we like to have an in-group and a common enemy to point at, we also love the 'plucky David vs Goliath' narrative. Nationalist parties throughout modern history have played on this, often to very successful effect.

The problem is the narrative falters when the 'David' in the situation, ie the pure, plucky but oppressed Nationalist party, is itself shown to be corrupt. That is the moment when the emperor is shown to have no clothes.

If you're gonna play the holier than thou card you really do have to ensure there are as few skeletons as possible in your closet. Or at least shove 'em really far back so they don't fall out.

Andrew Neil put it so well a few years ago :

” The Fiscally Illiterate SNP”

Another good and illuminating comment came from Alex Salmond around the same time .

” We have to get independence through before benefits are devolved to Scotland “

The SNP is corrupt.

It is dependent on building up grievances and differences where none exist.

It is dependent on building up a "Scottish exceptionalism" where none exists. This consists of Scotland and the people of Scotland simultaneously being better than the people of England whilst being oppressed by the English and Westminster.

It is not in the SNP'S interest to make devolution work. There is more money per capita but it's not in their interests to use it effectively or efficiently. Westminster has to be at fault for everything - even issues which are fully devolved. E.g not spending the money available to it for the Scottish NHS.

It depends on demonising anyone who doesn't support their insane proposals. You can't be a true Scot/ you don't care about Scotland if you don't support separatism.

Yep

@potniatheron

"My only interest in the SNP is how Scottish Independence would affect me as an English taxpayer and on that basis I'm in favour of Scottish Independence, although I appreciate it wouldn't be up to me come the next indyref. "

We all lose if the nats get their way. The costs of separation will run into the billions and will be borne by both rUK and Scotland.

As an taxpayer if you're worried about your money being wasted you should not be in favour of Scexit.

Would we really have to bear the costs of Scexit though? Serious question wouldn’t Scotland have to pay for it? I appreciate that if it all went wrong, it wouldn’t be very good for us to have to share a land border with a failed state. But I thought the SNP plan was to leave and then apply to join the EU?

Either way, I do think that in the next indyref, England, Wales and NI should also get a vote as it does affect us, I imagine that would swing it for Indy pretty convincingly. But I can also fully understand the argument against that, which is that it is a purely Scottish issue.

I seem to remember there was controversy last time over whether Scottish people living in the rest of the UK should get a vote. I can’t remember how they resolved that tho.

Posts like the above are why the SNP get votes, people from outside Scotland acting like they understand our country, our laws, our history, our culture etc and telling us what they think is best.

England and Wales would have to untangle themselves too. It would be exactly the same process as Brexit.

As to who got to vote, it was everyone on the electoral roll in Scotland regardless of where you were born.

"Scottish people" is not a legal concept. There's no nationality of "Scottish" I was born in Scotland, live in Scotland and am a British national. I got to vote.

JK Rowling was not born in Scotland but she lives here and she got to vote. Brian Cox, Alan Cummings and Sean Connery were born in Scotland but did not live in Scotland, so they , quite rightly, didn't get to vote.

But I thought the SNP plan was to leave and then apply to join the EU?

No chance of this for a long time. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in cloud cuckoo land. Before you are even allowed to apply you have to prove various institutions (including monetary systems) have a stable track record and comply with EU laws. These institutions etc won’t even be set up until independence let alone have a well established track record.

Posts like that make me despair.

Better Together was an excellent all unionist party campaign. Alastair Darling played it brilliantly, although one of my favourite bits was George Osborne telling the Nats "no, you don't get to use The Bank of England or keep the pound or get a currency union"

I remember at the last referendum two letters in the paper from people complaining they didn’t get to vote - both had left Scotland because they ‘wanted a better life’. One in America and one in England. Why they thought they should benefit from a better life elsewhere but still dictate what sort of life people in Scotland should have was beyond me.

Are you really that naive?

The legal fees would be astronomical. The negotiations would go on for years. Something like the Brexit dept would have to be set up to deal with it.

There are so many areas in which Scotland and the rUK are so intertwined it will be hugely costly and time consuming to separate them.

"it is dependent on building up grievances and differences where none exist.

It is dependent on building up a "Scottish exceptionalism" where none exists. This consists of Scotland and the people of Scotland simultaneously being better than the people of England whilst being oppressed by the English and Westminster.

It is not in the SNP'S interest to make devolution work. There is more money per capita but it's not in their interests to use it effectively or efficiently. Westminster has to be at fault for everything - even issues which are fully devolved. E.g not spending the money available to it for the Scottish NHS.

It depends on demonising anyone who doesn't support their insane proposals. You can't be a true Scot/ you don't care about Scotland if you don't support separatism."

Imo some of this/similar stuff was demonstrated with the LibDems. They set themselves up for years as "not being the Tories or Labour". And then they got into bed with the Tories and got power in 2010. Reality of government pulled them up very quickly. And they paid the price at the next election when it was seen that they were, at best, pragmatic like the rest.

People all over the U.K., all over the world say that. "You don't understand what it's like living in Scotland/the countryside/the red wall constituencies" etc. And so people give (or try to) Westminster or the equivalent a bloody nose when they get the chance see Brexit and independence referendum

Yes and not just the divorce fees which would be astronomical and make brexit seem cheap.

They have confirmed already a hard border would be required (because SNP want to join the EU) which then means goods become a lot more expensive due to the paperwork and checks involved.

This in turn drives up the price of food would be much greater for Scotland but England is dependent on Scottish produce for salmon, fish, strawberries and raspberries in the summer (in the summer check the package alot come from Angus) so produce would go up for these too in England.

It would also drive up energy and fuel costs for both as most of the southern North Sea is gas fields whereas the North (in Scottish waters) are oil fields.

Honestly it's not a simple case of less of my taxes will be given to Scotland, it would cost households much more both sides of the border!

Exactly, hence why I get so annoyed at people like the PP. They are just adding fuel to the fire - an ignorant English person making assumptions about Scotland, telling the Scots to go ahead and leave etc. The PP is demonstrating utter ignorance of what is really going on and the implications of independence.

This in turn drives up the price of food would be much greater for Scotland but England is dependent on Scottish produce for salmon, fish, strawberries and raspberries in the summer (in the summer check the package alot come from Angus) so produce would go up for these too in England.

Are you looking at strawberry packets in England or Scotland? In summer Scottish supermarkets sell mostly Scottish strawberries, but when I visit relatives in England their strawberries are from local English farms.

Ouch. 😂😂😂

robinmcalpine.org/the-snp-is-now-an-idiocracy/

Another arrest

SNP treasurer Colin Beattie arrested by police investigating party's finances

Was just coming on to post that! 🍿

It's all getting very interesting.

It's like a soap opera waiting on the 'what happens next'. When do we think they'll actually press charges?

I predict that no one will actually get charged with anything. There will be people working behind the scenes to make this all go away.

Hopefully the damage is done though.

@BlueThursday you beat me to it! I hope they keep it coming…but my money’s on a “no comment” interview, as I’m pretty sure Murrell’s will have been

This is Colin 'woven through the accounts' Beattie, is it not?

The Guardian hasn't named him yet but Sky and the MailOnline have.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11984801/SNP-treasurer-Colin-Beattie-arrested-probe-party-finances-Nicola-Sturgeon-leader.html

Ooft - harsh, but very true.

Oh this is very definitely going to be swept under the tartan carpet. The nationalist stalwarts on here know that too, that’s why they’ve gone to ground - they’ll emerge once this is all over to declare triumphantly ‘see, we knew they were innocent, it was all the fault of WM and the RWM’