Dundee University gives contextual offers to transgender pupils

[Aphrathestorm]

https://www.dundee.ac.uk/corporate-information/contextual-admissions-policy

I was looking into the widening access policies of Scottish universities and came across this on Dundee University's website.

All the others are very clear that any protected characteristics in the Equality Act (sex,disability,race etc) are not in any way considered as part of the application process.

Not only is this a potentially unlawful policy but it could lead to vulnerable pupils being pushed into transing by parents/teachers who want them to get into certain courses eg Medicine.

Where are the shades of grey?

We are discussing a binary situation, no shades of grey:
transgenderism - get preferential treatment
not transgender - get discriminated against

Me too

I'm a feminist too, I hate that the word ‘ woman’ is being erased, but I am ok with children who have suffered disruption to their education getting a contextual offer.
A pp asked if her daughter should declare herself transgender to get a place- no, she should just work hard. I’m all for a bit of social engineering, after all isn’t that what the ‘old boys club’ was?

We are not talking about disrupted education (defined here as “assessed as attending five or more Primary and Secondary schools or residing more than 40 miles from your Secondary School”)

As for “she should just work hard”, the point is working hard won’t help her. Being bright, or the best candidate won’t either. It is not good enough to work hard, get good grades, be the best person for the course or job. We should be seeking to get rid of old boys networks not setting up even more powerful ones in whatever political image. Mao Zedong would be impressed.

I think it's unlikely that women (c. 50% of the country) are going to be disadvantaged by a microscopic percentage of people who are trans.

Come on Mumsnet.

Get your act together.

This particular thread is a massive non-issue.

Why are you just talking about women?

Or men. They are c. 50% too, as I'm sure you know.

I take it you would have no problem giving other groups priority too? Pagans? Norwegians? 32-year-olds? Sikhs? Pregnant women? These groups are only small so why not give them priority for university places?

I'm not sure what your point is.

Are Norwegian 32 year olds the subject of discrimination?

Do you think there should be a level playing field for Norwegian, 32 year old women? Or Norwegian 32 year old men? 😂😂😂

Let's focus on stuff that actually matters to the majority of women. Like prosecution of rape. Like sexism in the workplace. Like women being paid the same.

This thread is a distraction. Let's focus on some important stuff.

I am sorry your child has suffer from bullying. But you don't get reduced offers at university because of bullying

@Topolectic Totally agree, seeing this all over MN at the moment. This thread is utterly ridiculous.

@TheOriginalEmu
I stand corrected. Is that just Dundee? It hasnt been the case for any of the universities, my dc had has had offers from. ( All English tbf)

This thread is a distraction. Let's focus on some important stuff.

A distraction from what, and who gets to decide what's 'important' ?

Couldn’t agree with you more. @Topolectic why are you reading and contributing to a thread when it’s distracting you from “more important stuff”?

There must be some degree of exploitation of contextual offers in many of the other categories too.
I don't know enough about how they are applied to know how easy that would be though? Does the applicant have to explain why they are asking for a contextual offer?
Anecdotally I have been told to consider applying to a certain 6th form for DD as universities offer contextual offers if you go there. The college is in a very deprived area but is good and pulls kids from a wider area - parts of which are not deprived at all.
Strikes me - if this is true - that the very well meaning (and still probably worth doing) scheme is potentially open to abuse and unintended advantage for some.

So theroetically, a student can apply in October and decide to say they are Trans.

6 months later, when they get their unconditional offer, they can decide 'actually, I don't think I am Trans after all'.

Wht happens then? Do they lose their place? Do they still start the course but in their biological sex?

There is absolutely no information on whether proof is needed and being a 16/17 year old, you won't have a GRC yet.

That is the whole ridiculousness of it.

My point about Norwegians is it is ridiculous - and unlawful p to discriminate by promoting specific protected characteristics over their inverse.

And why have you and another poster suddenly appeared on a thread about university contextual offers to declare your feminism and concern for rape victims? What has that got to do with contextual offers, rural students being denied a place to study law at Edinburgh or other students being denied places at Dundee based on illegal discrimination?

There must be some degree of exploitation of contextual offers in many of the other categories too.

It is edging towards “if you comply with The Party you will get preferential treatment”. ‘Exploitation’ could also flip into manipulation - go to the correct school, adopt the correct ideology, vote SNP (as demonstrated by your elected politicians), perform the approved behaviours...

isn't the category 2 part only in play for a flag if you have more than one of the factors listed, on that basis being transgender alone isn't enough on my read of it

Getting on a decent university course is now hard for Scots pupils who don't have additional flags for a contextual offer I imagine there will be a lot of applicants who want to go to Dundee claiming to be trans. Edinburgh Uni's application system last year was so ridiculous that I expect there will be a lot of people gaming the system for this and future years.

Other factors may have impacted your study and staff reading your application may, at their discretion, allocate a contextual flag equivalent to Category 1, if more than one of the following factors apply:

If you have more than one you may get bumped up to category 1, if you have one then you remain in category 2.

Exactly this.