Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Original poster

Dundee University gives contextual offers to transgender pupils

121 replies

Aphrathestorm · 31/01/2023 21:58

https://www.dundee.ac.uk/corporate-information/contextual-admissions-policy

I was looking into the widening access policies of Scottish universities and came across this on Dundee University's website.

All the others are very clear that any protected characteristics in the Equality Act (sex,disability,race etc) are not in any way considered as part of the application process.

Not only is this a potentially unlawful policy but it could lead to vulnerable pupils being pushed into transing by parents/teachers who want them to get into certain courses eg Medicine.

OP posts:
Blahburst · 31/01/2023 22:02

Can’t anyone just say they’re nonbinary transgender to get a flag? No transing necessary. In fact any potential applicant would be daft not to identify as trans since it doesn’t actually mean very much.

SauMore · 31/01/2023 22:12

Well that'll be interesting! My understanding of widening access is that supporting evidence has to be provided.

I know 2 people at university at the moment having applied under widening access criteria as they were young carers and both had to produce evidence.

RichardOsmansXraySpecs · 31/01/2023 22:17

What would be the reason they get a reduced offer though? Why would they not be able to get the normal grades?

TheOriginalEmu · 31/01/2023 22:18

evidence of living as a trans person will need to be provided.
it’s not just trans people who can be considered and they do need to meet the academic criteria too, so im not sure what the issue is.

TheOriginalEmu · 31/01/2023 22:21

RichardOsmansXraySpecs · 31/01/2023 22:17

What would be the reason they get a reduced offer though? Why would they not be able to get the normal grades?

I have a transgender child. In the last year he has been physically assaulted twice, surrounded in a bathroom numerous times, suffers daily abuse and bullying and as such has missed a decent amount of school. The stress of this abuse has caused him to develop tics and migraines so severe, he was taken by ambulance to hospital as they thought he had had a stroke.
his story of what it’s like to be trans at school isn’t unique. That’s why.

Arrrrrrragghhh · 31/01/2023 22:27

TheOriginalEmu · 31/01/2023 22:21

I have a transgender child. In the last year he has been physically assaulted twice, surrounded in a bathroom numerous times, suffers daily abuse and bullying and as such has missed a decent amount of school. The stress of this abuse has caused him to develop tics and migraines so severe, he was taken by ambulance to hospital as they thought he had had a stroke.
his story of what it’s like to be trans at school isn’t unique. That’s why.

Show quote history

Disgusting your poor child has been subjected to that.
However there will be other bullied children who are not trans. They need to be eligible if that’s the criteria. Not over gender which is subjective at best.

titchy · 31/01/2023 22:29

Those would come under mental health @TheOriginalEmu

The problem with a blanket category such as trans is that it's unclear why academic studies would be affected, it doesn't usually. The other categories all have a decent evidence base which support contextual offers. Being trans doesn't.

That's not to dismiss your child's horrendous experience at all btw - that sounds awful and I hope they will be ok. Flowers

RichardOsmansXraySpecs · 31/01/2023 22:38

@TheOriginalEmu that is horrendous but being affected by bullying would come under the mental health caveat. Surely not all trans kids have gone through that?

MountedbyHarryWindsor · 31/01/2023 22:55

This is outrageous. I am really concerned about my DDs prospects of getting into University. Does she need to declare herself as trans now?
Regarding proof - that in itself is problematic, not just for transgender people but also for disability (its a legal definition not a medical definition).
Also - do you not need to be 18 or older to get a GRC? Many applicants will not have that yet. Lots of potential problems for Dundee.
Who is the MSP who raised the Edinburgh Uni issue? Does he know about this too?

EzzieM · 31/01/2023 23:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Sugarfree23 · 31/01/2023 23:31

Define Trans?

What a stupid criteria, anyone can say they are trans, girl with long hair and jeans, oh I'm a trans man who likes rock music!

Is meaning less.

Sugarfree23 · 31/01/2023 23:32

Once they are accepted - changed my mind I prefer being a woman 👩

Moopsi · 31/01/2023 23:33

My DC is disabled and in a wheelchair. Has been bullied and missed lots of school due to surgery and physiotherapy. No contexualised offer is available for that. But wear gender non-conforming clothes and change your pronouns and you're in.

Shelefttheweb · 01/02/2023 00:00

Isn’t that discriminating against people on the basis of gender reassignment?

Unlike other protected characteristics you ARE allowed to provide more favourable treatment to those with a disability under the equality act - yet they aren’t doing so?

Shelefttheweb · 01/02/2023 00:00

It just goes to prove these ‘contextual offers’ are all about social engineering.

TheOriginalEmu · 01/02/2023 01:30

Shelefttheweb · 01/02/2023 00:00

Isn’t that discriminating against people on the basis of gender reassignment?

Unlike other protected characteristics you ARE allowed to provide more favourable treatment to those with a disability under the equality act - yet they aren’t doing so?

Disabled people are on the list.

TheOriginalEmu · 01/02/2023 01:34

Moopsi · 31/01/2023 23:33

My DC is disabled and in a wheelchair. Has been bullied and missed lots of school due to surgery and physiotherapy. No contexualised offer is available for that. But wear gender non-conforming clothes and change your pronouns and you're in.

Yes they would, it’s on the list.

TheOriginalEmu · 01/02/2023 01:35

Blahburst · 31/01/2023 22:02

Can’t anyone just say they’re nonbinary transgender to get a flag? No transing necessary. In fact any potential applicant would be daft not to identify as trans since it doesn’t actually mean very much.

No, they would need to provide proof

TheOriginalEmu · 01/02/2023 01:37

titchy · 31/01/2023 22:29

Those would come under mental health @TheOriginalEmu

The problem with a blanket category such as trans is that it's unclear why academic studies would be affected, it doesn't usually. The other categories all have a decent evidence base which support contextual offers. Being trans doesn't.

That's not to dismiss your child's horrendous experience at all btw - that sounds awful and I hope they will be ok. Flowers

Rape victims who are I disagree that it doesn’t usually affect it. I would say most of the trans kids I know have had their education effected in some way.

TheOriginalEmu · 01/02/2023 01:39

Arrrrrrragghhh · 31/01/2023 22:27

Disgusting your poor child has been subjected to that.
However there will be other bullied children who are not trans. They need to be eligible if that’s the criteria. Not over gender which is subjective at best.

Show quote history

That’s true, but they’d probably be covered under mental health or disrupted education

FrancescaContini · 01/02/2023 01:42

Extraordinary. So being T is a passport to special treatment?

TheOriginalEmu · 01/02/2023 01:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Did you even read the criteria? Those would be covered. A person who’s been raped/ sexually abused would come under Reach/aces.

a person coming out of prison would be covered by vulnerable person as would someone subjected to racial abuse.

slamfightbrightlight · 01/02/2023 01:52

TheOriginalEmu · 01/02/2023 01:35

No, they would need to provide proof

Show quote history

How do you prove you’re non-binary?

TheShellBeach · 01/02/2023 02:06

slamfightbrightlight · 01/02/2023 01:52

How do you prove you’re non-binary?

Show quote history

Exactly.

FrancescaContini · 01/02/2023 02:14

TheShellBeach · 01/02/2023 02:06

Exactly.

Show quote history

I’ve often wondered this. I can’t find any examples of what it means.

Does it mean: a woman with short hair? A man wearing nail varnish? If I wear flat shoes as a woman, am I non binary?