Dundee University gives contextual offers to transgender pupils

[Aphrathestorm]

https://www.dundee.ac.uk/corporate-information/contextual-admissions-policy

I was looking into the widening access policies of Scottish universities and came across this on Dundee University's website.

All the others are very clear that any protected characteristics in the Equality Act (sex,disability,race etc) are not in any way considered as part of the application process.

Not only is this a potentially unlawful policy but it could lead to vulnerable pupils being pushed into transing by parents/teachers who want them to get into certain courses eg Medicine.

They are, on the basis of mitigating / challenging circumstances, reviewed on a case by case basis.

But for disability you'd probably need to prove it, which should not be happening - its a legal definition - you need to go to court to get 100% proof. Anyone could say they are disabled and refuse to provide a GPs letter and if they don't get a place without proof, take the university to court for that proof.
I hope the university can afford that.

Isn't this unlawful?

What's regarded as proof?

It's such a wishy washy idea that has more holes than a fishing net.

What does it mean to say 'I live as a man'? Other than I wear jeans.

Ladybrain, innit? Too full of kittens and pink leggings and having boobs to pass exams.

🙄

That must have been a horrendous time for for child, however re the use of toilets, dies the school have mixed sex toilets or were they using the ones for the opposite sex?

can imagine teen boys being uncomfortable using a urinal with a female present, but also your child feeling very vulnerable going to the loo surrounded by males.
N.b am assuming for above child is female but identifies as man gender.

Word above should be *does! Formatting causing dreadful tupos!

@MonkeyMindAllOverAround , @TheOriginalEmu Yes sorry that was my point.
Bullied/ disrupted education are valid reasons. Definable and evidence based.
Gender is subjective.
The camp 17 year old in glitter might be very happy to be a gay male. Why should he lose out to camp 17 year old in glitter declaring they are of a different gender?

I’m not sure the medical school will be filled with pink hair and those who identify as cats. Dundee requires an extremely high CAT score (compared to most) which I don’t think you can identify into.

The school should have been respecting the privacy and dignity of boys and the vulnerability of your child by providing separate single use facilities in accordance with EHRC guidelines If your child felt unable to use those of their own sex. Children should not be put in the position of having to enforce their right to single sex spaces or they are liable to do so in an unacceptable manner. Children should also be taught that it is impossible to change sex and if a child wishes to present in a manner typical of the opposite sex then they must still be accepting of them within their (ie the child’s biological sex) sex spaces. We hear about how transwomen feel unsafe in men’s toilets - this should be addressed in school so that boys accept biological males in their spaces however they present or identify.

Diversity is to be celebrated
Why is this bad ?

What do you mean by that?

in the kind of school or community that will bully and exclude for such things, the gender non-conforming child who understands physical reality and knows that no one can actually change sex will be just as bullied, excluded and suffering disruption to their education as the gender-nonconfirming child who has been bathed in the magic genderwoo. the declaration of being trans doesn't make it any worse.

meanwhile at the kind of school where magic genderwoo is more fashionable, the trans child may suffer no disruption or bullying at all, whereas the gender non-conforming child who understands physical reality and knows that no one can actually change sex may get bullied and excludes for daring to hold such "transphobic" knowledge.

besides which gender is fundamentally unprovable, no rigorous definition for what such "proof" might look like is ever published because if it was it would be ripped to shreds as reinforcement of sexist stereotype claptrap.

Hmm why pick trans and not non binary?Are they also automatically assuming all trans applicants have been bullied as a pp suggested? If so then why doesn't the impact of that come under mental health? Why not include gay applicants? Seems very random. Or they're actually trying to increase the number of trans students there, who knows!

For Law at Dundee instead of AAABB (standard offer but doesn't guarantee a place) a trans pupil would only need to gain ABBB to be potentially guaranteed a place.

This isn't going to be exploited. No, never.

A lot of UK universities don’t offer young carers contextual offers. It’s disgusting.

Will anyone actually challenge, question Dundee university though? Or will they just get away with this?

Another group that are often bullied are quiet bright studious children.

I would say most of the trans kids I know have had their education effected in some way

But 'the kids you know' isn't an evidence base. Whereas there is a wide and well understood evidence base for outcomes for children in care for example. It's not to say trans kids are not deserving, I'm saying we don't know if their education is effected because it's so bloody difficult to do the research.

Contextual offers are separate from the equality act and protected characteristics btw. All applicants should be treated equally, none discriminated against because of their characteristics - and that is what happens. Contextual offers are an extra for certain groups that do not have to be defined by the names protected characteristics so it's not discriminatory in that legal sense.

Because the policy is not to create or celebrate diversity. It's to recognise that some facet of someone's life has caused them to perform poorly at A levels/Highers. We are disagreeing that the blanket characteristic of being trans means academic performance suffers.

So. My Ds has ASD & clinical Anxiety. He receives PIP at high level (both) as when his Anxiety is really bad he has Grand Mal seizure-like spasms. Currently at College (little accommodation but he does receive Disabled Student Allowance). Our GP is skeptical (we're rural so no other GP available). He wants to go to Dundee.

Am I correct that DS wouldn't therefore qualify for a contextual offer (if GP wont write letter) but Dd, who like all her friends at school is 'probably Trans, Mum' would ???

Contextual offers are separate from the equality act and protected characteristics btw.

This is not true. Contextual offers can only be made within the bounds of the equality act. You are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of protected characteristics except in a few defined circumstances (eg genuine occupational requirements). You are allowed to try and round up more applicants from particular characteristics if under-represented, but not treat them more favourably once they have applied. And this works both ways - you can not discriminate on either the presence or absence of a particular characteristics. So choosing one characteristic (gender reassignment) and discriminating in favour of this is unlawful.

I would say most of the trans kids I know have had their education effected in some way.

We cannot have Universities choosing students based on trans or sexuality.

What about all the other people who have had their education affected by something.

The kids in care
The young carers
The kids with long term illness
The kids with disabilities
The kids who've been bereaved
The kids who don't have English as first language.
The kids who've been abused
The kids who've fought for ASD / ADHD assessments for years.
The kids who've been bullied for any reason.
The kids with ethnic minority backgrounds

And before you know where you are just about every kid will be getting a dispensation for something.

PIP would be enough. A GP letter probably wouldn’t be.

Agree @Sugarfree23 . That’s why there are the protected characteristics. They’re objective categories, easily definable.

Operating outside the clearcut protected characteristics leaves room for the subjective sympathies of admissions officers towards one person above another. Which would be discriminatory.