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Tell me this is not real please. Scotland's first period dignity officer is a man. A MAN.

679 replies

Rainbowshit · 15/08/2022 21:37

I just can't put into words how furious this makes me. Females are having the pis absolutely ripped out of them in Scotland.

What the fuck would a male understand about the indignity of realising you'd leaked through onto your clothes.

About the cold fear when your period is late.

About trying to unwrap a tampon quietly. Etc etc.

I suppose the only saving grace is at least they are not claiming to be a woman.

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/3593497/dundee-man-leading-period-poverty-fight-how-to-get-free-products/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Blister · 16/08/2022 01:39

Lots of people on here who usually spew "you can't be what you can't see" are now using the other side of their mouth for ... reasons.

Meh, female leadership representation is done, amirite?

And if you can dissociate female problems from the female experience then these problems just need a steady hand to be overcome. This male seems to have had the steadiest hand. There is no better female project manager in all of Scotland! And I'm told all the time that there are no women keynote speakers at my conferences because none applied. Remember all this relies on an assumption someone, most likely a woman since hr is mostly staffed by women, was so ready to make.

And finally, as it always was, diversity is way more important than representing a certain 50% of the population! Especially when anyone can be the face of the most awkward moment in a teenager girl's life!

Funny how when the role is geared more towards women, diversity becomes important but when the role skews a bit towards men, strength of character is more desirable.

Right, let's have another go with movember and prostate cancer! Scotland, over to you. Work your magic!

Whowhatwherewhenwhynow · 16/08/2022 01:40

I’m genuinely interested.
sorry if I’m not following but are you saying Sanitary products must be made available to men by law? Or have I misinterpreted what you meant?

RJnomore1 · 16/08/2022 01:41

No I am hold on I’ll link the legislation guidance.

RJnomore1 · 16/08/2022 01:44

www.gov.scot/publications/period-products-free-provision-scotland-act-2021-guidance-responsible-bodies-september-2021/pages/2/

section 4. As another aside, the word men is used in that guidance but the word women is nowhere.

Discovereads · 16/08/2022 01:49

Pallisers · 16/08/2022 00:57

Next they will be hiring MALE GYNAECOLOGISTS and MALE MIDWIVES to peek up women's private parts.

Oh the hysteria. Love the CAPS. But well done for not including "pearl clutching" in your post.

Many women would prefer not to be treated by a male gynae or a male midwife. My friend who was digitally raped by her first gynae as a teen certainly wouldn't. I would not consent to a mammogram performed by a male nurse - nothing to do with him personally but those are my boundaries.

If you are going to discuss this at least avoid ridiculing women's hard-earned worries about men having access to their vaginas.

It’s a good thing I didn’t turn my nose up at my male oncologist for my breast cancer or I wouldn’t be here to listen to the sexist drivel about jobs that only a woman can do.

Whowhatwherewhenwhynow · 16/08/2022 01:52

RJnomore1 · 16/08/2022 01:44

www.gov.scot/publications/period-products-free-provision-scotland-act-2021-guidance-responsible-bodies-september-2021/pages/2/

section 4. As another aside, the word men is used in that guidance but the word women is nowhere.

Very interesting. You’re right the word woman is nowhere. It’s mind blowing to me that legislation to about menstruation products doesn’t mention women once, but does mention men. (Insert mind blown emoji here).

Blister · 16/08/2022 01:54

@Discovereads I do believe your oncologist spent 5-10 years learning about the very specific part of the female anatomy, carried out trial research and wrote peer reviewed papers to have the courage to tell another person how their body works. At least I hope so.

I doubt very much this role has that much lived experience behind it. It needs to be acquired in a different way here. It's not sexist to point out when things are actually different.

RJnomore1 · 16/08/2022 01:59

@Whowhatwherewhenwhynow yes there’s a real issue there!

Discovereads · 16/08/2022 02:01

Blister · 16/08/2022 01:54

@Discovereads I do believe your oncologist spent 5-10 years learning about the very specific part of the female anatomy, carried out trial research and wrote peer reviewed papers to have the courage to tell another person how their body works. At least I hope so.

I doubt very much this role has that much lived experience behind it. It needs to be acquired in a different way here. It's not sexist to point out when things are actually different.

I must be misunderstanding you, but you seem to be saying that technical qualifications = lived experience?

Thats not how posters have been using lived experience. They think you have to have lived experienced having periods to do this job. This is equivalent to an oncologist having had the cancer they specialise in treating.

Frankly I’d rather a person has the relevant technical qualifications for what they’re doing whether that’s healthcare or administrative roles like this project manager one than the lived experience of the health issue.

GibbonsGoatsGibbons · 16/08/2022 02:02

Whowhatwherewhenwhynow · 16/08/2022 01:52

Very interesting. You’re right the word woman is nowhere. It’s mind blowing to me that legislation to about menstruation products doesn’t mention women once, but does mention men. (Insert mind blown emoji here).

Mind blowing unless in Scotland 😩

(or Canada )

MarieKlepto · 16/08/2022 02:13

I'm Scottish. I love Scotland. Not so keen on the woman in charge eradicating women's rights and experiences on a weekly basis. Also, not keen on her blanket freebies. I'm not minted but can pay for baby box stuff/prescriptions/period products etc, etc. Target the cash better.

Blister · 16/08/2022 02:18

Discovereads · 16/08/2022 02:01

I must be misunderstanding you, but you seem to be saying that technical qualifications = lived experience?

Thats not how posters have been using lived experience. They think you have to have lived experienced having periods to do this job. This is equivalent to an oncologist having had the cancer they specialise in treating.

Frankly I’d rather a person has the relevant technical qualifications for what they’re doing whether that’s healthcare or administrative roles like this project manager one than the lived experience of the health issue.

My parents always told me the stories of the doctors who eventually got cancer themselves. And how that was the main way of getting better patient centered treatment, pain management and evidence based medicine for different cancers.
Covering the training that "lived experience" has resulted in, up with the words "technical competency" is dismissive to me. All that research and peer review isn't just to go over endocrine systems 101...

I don't think this male project manager can know what it's like to check your chair every time you get up. I mean there isn't enough time to give him the crash course on managing periods from pre-teens to menopause if he has been selected on project management technical merit which means he hasn't spent 5-10 years studying the people he might have to explain their biological functions to - especially if he also wants to be the role model of those biological functions and their supporting products.

He's the one who sees himself as the role model, those are not my words.

SpidersAreShitheads · 16/08/2022 02:31

Discovereads · 16/08/2022 02:01

I must be misunderstanding you, but you seem to be saying that technical qualifications = lived experience?

Thats not how posters have been using lived experience. They think you have to have lived experienced having periods to do this job. This is equivalent to an oncologist having had the cancer they specialise in treating.

Frankly I’d rather a person has the relevant technical qualifications for what they’re doing whether that’s healthcare or administrative roles like this project manager one than the lived experience of the health issue.

But surely there are roles where lived experience takes precedence, and others where technical knowledge is more important? I don't think anyone would suggest that a male oncologist with his many years of training would be unsuitable to treat a female breast cancer patient. His technical knowledge and training is the priority here, and the most important. But as @Blister very astutely points out, a doctor who has also sat in the patient's chair tends to have much greater insight into what the patient needs and how they're feeling. And that results in much better care. Is it imperative? No. But it does make a big difference.

Clearly insisting on only having a doctor who has had cancer themselves would be ridiculous, and unsustainable but lived experience can really improve the quality of care, and provides insight.

In this role, the job description says the applicant should have "a successful track record of engaging and empowering a large range of people from a diverse range of cultural and socio-economic backgrounds, in particular young people who menstruate."

This part of the job description and other sections which refer to "engaging with young people and communities" makes this role appear very different to a simple project management role. It's almost a hybrid position.

Young girls, perhaps today more than ever before, experience a lot of difficulty talking about their periods and bodily changes. Talking about their periods with a man makes it infinitely harder and will absolutely prevent some from engaging. We'll ignore the fact there's a whole older demographic in these "communities" who would also be very uncomfortable with discussing periods with a man.

I understand the points you were trying to make earlier about equality. And I agree it's important to consider whether a position really does need to be fulfilled by a woman, or if we're trying to tilt equality too far in the opposite direction.

This isn't about a bloke sitting at a desk directing internal resources and organising funding. The job is about engaging young people and interacting with communities. I don't see how anyone can genuinely believe that a man can do this as effectively as a woman. This is one of those cases where lived experience really does matter.

That's why I went and looked at the job description because while it would have been a bit irritating, if it had been purely a pen-pushing role and not public-facing then the sex of the post-holder would have been far less important. But it's not. We're talking about putting a biological man in a position to engage young females on the subject of periods. It's just not relatable and will undoubtedly affect accessibility of the service for many.

Cheekymaw · 16/08/2022 02:42

The actual front of that Jason. What a bloody cheeky . Honestly Scotland yer taking the absolute pish. And @PissedOffUnison is that a Scottish Unison branch that has the male menopause rep? I left Unison down here (South East England ) because of their vote to remove the Nordic model and declare Self ID as the One True Faith with consulting any members except the chosen LGBT committee conference ones. No going to pay into a union that doesn't even give me a token vote after paying in for twenty odd years.

RedToothBrush · 16/08/2022 02:44

PrimAndProperPearlClutcher · 15/08/2022 21:50

'“I was chosen as the best person for the job and for me, it’s irrespective of gender.

“Having a guy can’t be a bad thing – it grabs the headlines, but that’s not the reason I was put into post!” Jason continues.

“For me it’s about driving the discussion from a young age so boys and girls are included and there’s no hiding it away because that keeps it as a taboo topic.

“I want to be seen as a positive male role model.”'

So long as Jason's happy, eh?

He isn't the best person for the job. He won't be able to talk to certain groups because of it and women won't want to talk to him.
BECAUSE of the taboo. You just will end up with self silencing.

SD1978 · 16/08/2022 02:48

Because Jason thinks he is better suited to teach women than a woman can and that men should be taught all about it to. Because Jason thinks he's better suited to talk to women about pesky womens problems than a woman is.

TeaKlaxon · 16/08/2022 02:49

Do posters on here realise that there are people working in the civil service responsible for policy on abortion and reproductive rights policy and delivery who have never needed an abortion?

Do they realise that there are people working on the policy around violence against women and girls who are not women and girls?

Do they realise that there are people working on policy about adult social care who have never needed adult social care?

Lived experience can be a useful factor in applying for jobs. But the principal requirements are the actual role-specific skills.

Is it plausible that of the applicants, this guy had the best set of project management skills? Sure it is. Delivery of a large project like this requires specific skills around people management, evidence gathering and analysis, communications, strategy, resource and budget management. There is nothing at all that tells us there was a better qualified woman among the applicants.

No one here has any idea how many people applied, or what the quality of applicants was like. Of course it’s possible that this guy had the best skills needed for this job - which is not to be out talking to young girls about their periods, but the delivery of a large project across a number of local authority areas.

TeaKlaxon · 16/08/2022 02:53

RedToothBrush · 16/08/2022 02:44

He isn't the best person for the job. He won't be able to talk to certain groups because of it and women won't want to talk to him.
BECAUSE of the taboo. You just will end up with self silencing.

But his job isn’t to talk to women about periods.

His job is to deliver a project that, among other things, will involve other people talking to women about periods.

Its a bit like saying a non-medically qualified GP practice manager shouldn’t be in the role because they can’t talk to me about my specific medical issue. That’s not their job. Their job is to manage the practice - including managing doctors whose job it is to talk to me about medical issues.

Pallisers · 16/08/2022 02:56

Discovereads · 16/08/2022 01:49

It’s a good thing I didn’t turn my nose up at my male oncologist for my breast cancer or I wouldn’t be here to listen to the sexist drivel about jobs that only a woman can do.

what has that to do with anything I said? I never said anything about jobs only a woman - or a man - can do. I posted about women preferring a woman in certain circumstances. And about women being nervous or afraid around men in intimate physical medical situations. Do you not think that is worth considering? Should they just suck it up despite anything they have experienced?

Glad your cancer was treated. I'm sure a female oncologist would have done just fine too.

TeaKlaxon · 16/08/2022 02:59

Pallisers · 16/08/2022 02:56

what has that to do with anything I said? I never said anything about jobs only a woman - or a man - can do. I posted about women preferring a woman in certain circumstances. And about women being nervous or afraid around men in intimate physical medical situations. Do you not think that is worth considering? Should they just suck it up despite anything they have experienced?

Glad your cancer was treated. I'm sure a female oncologist would have done just fine too.

This role has nothing to do with intimate examinations of women though.

Its far more similar to people who work in roles on the policy or delivery of public projects who have the skills to deliver them but aren’t necessarily the target of those projects themselves, like the examples I gave above.

SpidersAreShitheads · 16/08/2022 03:02

TeaKlaxon · 16/08/2022 02:53

But his job isn’t to talk to women about periods.

His job is to deliver a project that, among other things, will involve other people talking to women about periods.

Its a bit like saying a non-medically qualified GP practice manager shouldn’t be in the role because they can’t talk to me about my specific medical issue. That’s not their job. Their job is to manage the practice - including managing doctors whose job it is to talk to me about medical issues.

Did you have a look at the job description posted earlier in the thread? I'd be inclined to agree with you if it was a pure project management position. However, in this case it seems to be a hybrid role as the job directly involves "engaging with young persons and communities" and says the applicant should have "a successful track record of engaging and empowering a large range of people from a diverse range of cultural and socio-economic backgrounds, in particular young people who menstruate.".

I don't think this is just a project management or faceless civil servant position. From the description it's engaging directly with service users. And like it or not, women and especially young girls - ie the target demographic - will respond far more openly to a fellow female, not a man. It's the engagement part of the role that's the issue here.

Festoonlights · 16/08/2022 03:07

There is no way on earth my teen dds would engage with a man on this subject. It would be mortifying.

TeaKlaxon · 16/08/2022 03:09

SpidersAreShitheads · 16/08/2022 03:02

Did you have a look at the job description posted earlier in the thread? I'd be inclined to agree with you if it was a pure project management position. However, in this case it seems to be a hybrid role as the job directly involves "engaging with young persons and communities" and says the applicant should have "a successful track record of engaging and empowering a large range of people from a diverse range of cultural and socio-economic backgrounds, in particular young people who menstruate.".

I don't think this is just a project management or faceless civil servant position. From the description it's engaging directly with service users. And like it or not, women and especially young girls - ie the target demographic - will respond far more openly to a fellow female, not a man. It's the engagement part of the role that's the issue here.

Engaging and empowering communities doesn’t mean going and talking directly to individuals about their periods though.

That language could literally be lifted from any public sector role that involves any sort of communications planning or campaign design, or any sort of stakeholder strategy management.

I promise you that whoever leads on the Home Office’s comms campaigns to do with, say, violence against women and girls, will also be expected to be able to engage and empower communities. That doesn’t mean they are out there talking to individual women and girls about their experiences.

Blister · 16/08/2022 03:24

TeaKlaxon · 16/08/2022 03:09

Engaging and empowering communities doesn’t mean going and talking directly to individuals about their periods though.

That language could literally be lifted from any public sector role that involves any sort of communications planning or campaign design, or any sort of stakeholder strategy management.

I promise you that whoever leads on the Home Office’s comms campaigns to do with, say, violence against women and girls, will also be expected to be able to engage and empower communities. That doesn’t mean they are out there talking to individual women and girls about their experiences.

I would expect them to be of good standing but I would not expect them to describe themselves as role models for the women and girls involved. And I'd expect them to actually center the females even if the males have parallel exposure to whatever the topic is.

His own description of his role lends itself to the idea that he will be reaching out to the affected communities!

Festoonlights · 16/08/2022 03:26

TeaKlaxon · 16/08/2022 03:09

Engaging and empowering communities doesn’t mean going and talking directly to individuals about their periods though.

That language could literally be lifted from any public sector role that involves any sort of communications planning or campaign design, or any sort of stakeholder strategy management.

I promise you that whoever leads on the Home Office’s comms campaigns to do with, say, violence against women and girls, will also be expected to be able to engage and empower communities. That doesn’t mean they are out there talking to individual women and girls about their experiences.

How can you possibly empower women when you have absolutely no fucking idea what a period even feels like?!

No idea at all of the impact emotionally, hormonally and physically on a woman. No comprehension whatsoever of what it feels like to bleed in public, the pain, the feelings and scenarios. At least with DV violence a man may have had an experience of violence/bullying and pain, he isn’t likely to have the first clue about the challenges of menstruation - he will literally be second guessing or regurgitating second hand information and that is unacceptable. By default he is totally unfit for the job, as it relies on actual lived experience.
Patronising BS will be the result further alienating women from real empowerment and support.